[Advaita-l] kshatriya dharma according to manu smriti and its interpretation today?

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

I  think the question should meat be consumed is becoming irrelevant
nowadays. Because the health effects of eating meat are bad. Meat is poor
quality in India and it is not clean but full of chemicals and bacteria.
Chicken is full of antibiotics and other dangerous chemicals. I personally
know one North Indian Brahmin became chicken eater because his mother's
friend attracted him to eat chicken. He got all health problems like
Irritable Bowel Syndrome and finally stopped chicken and became pure
vegetarian.

When I see people of Mumbai eating fish it is shocking. You can see how bad
and polluted the sea has become. Blue sea has become brown with all sewage
water. They are catching fish in that eating them. They will become sick.

People say even vegetables have become polluted but the pollution is less
in vegetables. Milk has lot of adulteration also.

Therefore even if a person wants to meat against Dharma it is not advisable
for health reasons.


On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 9:38 AM, ravi chandrasekhara via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Some thoughts/questions
> 1.Is it dharmic for Kshatriyas to expand kingdom by warfare which kills
> people ? Especially when it is not fighting evil kings but just
> expansion.2.Kshatriyas  hunt and eat meat but this is independent from meat
> obtained from yagnas; is that dharmically acceptable ?3.Is Kshatriyas
> dharma just applicable to Kshatriyas by birth and also non-kshatriyas
> kings/rulers ?4.Are non-kshatriyas dharmically permitted to rule/become
> kings ?5.In Kali Yuga in Bharat, there were many Shudra (e.g. Reddy Kings
> of Andhra, 2 of the Vijanagara dynasties, Jat kingdoms, etc), foreign
> (Muslims and Europeans), and some Braahmana kings (Dharbanga Rajas- Mithila
> Braahmanas and current figurehead maharaja of Varanasi- Bhumihar Braahmana,
> Kadambas).6.Would modern day India's Prime Minister be a Kshatriyas
> position ? Nehru-Kashmiri Braahmana, Indira Gandhi- Nehru's daughter
> married to a Parsi, Shastri- Chitragupta Kayastha (non-Dvija), Desai- Guj
> Braahmana, N. Rao- Telugu Braahmana, Vajpayee- Kanyakubja Braahmana, VP
> Singh- rajput Kshatriyas, M Singh - Khatri Sikh, Modi- Guj Shudra
> jaati.7.Kshatriyas by birth are supposed to undergo upanayna, wear
> yagnopaveeta, and do sandhya-vandana; doesn't appear that many perform
> nowadays .8.In Hindi serials of Chanakya, Mahabharat, Ramayan- Kshatriyas
> kings (except for battle and ruling) "behave " like South Indian
> Braahmanas- wearing Yagnopaveeta, maintaining shikha, doing Bhojan Vidhi
> (parichesane) before meals, and performing Sandhya Vandana. (Most of those
> actors are North Indian).9.If Kshatriyas don't perform their birth based
> duties (ruling, etc); are they still permitted to eat meat ? e.g. is a
> Rajput physician dharmically allowed to consume meat ?
> Ravi Chandrasekhara
>
>     On Sunday, January 21, 2018 12:20 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
>  On Fri, 19 Jan 2018, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l wrote:
>
> > As this post has already gotten quite long, I will add some further
> excerpts
> > from gitaparvan in a part two tomorrow.
>
> Continuing...
>
> In the Gita proper, Krishna Bhagavans first response to Arjunas concerns
> is similiar to Bhishmas.  He says:
>
> svadharmam api chAvekShya na vikampitum arhasi |
> dharmayAddhi yuddhAchchhreyo.anyAtkShatriyasya na vidyate ||6|24|31||
> (Gita 2:31)
>
> "Look to your svadharma and do not waver, for there is nothing more
> salutary for a kShatriya than a dharmayuddha."
>
> yadR^ichchhayA chopapannaM svargadvAram apAvR^itam |
> sukhinaH kShatriyAH pArtha labhante yuddham IdR^isham ||6|24|32|| (Gita
> 2:32)
>
> "Happy are the Kshatriyas who come upon a battle such as this, oh
> Partha[1]! veritably an open door to Heaven[2]."
>
> [1] Descendent of Prthu i.e. Arjuna.
>
> [2] Notice the metaphor of the door to Heaven just as in Bhishmas' speech.
>
> atha chet tvam imaM dharmyaM saMgrAmaM na kariShyasi |
> tataH svadharmaM kIrtim cha hitvA pApam avApsyasi ||6|24|33|| (Gita 2:33)
>
> "Or if you will not fight this dharmic battle, then having abandoned your
> dharma and reputation[3], you will incur sin."
>
> [3] Arjuna is already well-known for many great deeds.
>
> akirtiM chApi bhUtAni kathayiShyanti te.avyayAm |
> saMbhAvitasya chAkirtirmaraNAdatirichyate ||6|24|34|| (Gita 2:34)
>
> "All beings too will talk of your eternal shame and to one who has known
> fame, infamy is worse than death."
>
> bhayAdraNAduparataM maMsyante tvAM mahArathAH |
> yeShAM cha tvaM bahumato bhUtvA yAsyasi lAghavaM ||6|24|35|| (Gita 2:35)
>
> "The great chariot-warriors[4] will think that you ran from the
> battlefield out of fear and they who once esteemed you highly will hold
> you in contempt."
>
> [4] The chariot-warriors (mahAratha) were the elite forces of the
> classical Indian army.
>
> avAchyavAdAMshcha bahUn vadiShyanti tavAhitAH |
> nindantastava sAmarthyaM tato duHkhataraM nu kim ||6|24|36|| (Gita 2:36)
>
> "Your enemies too, taking your prowess lightly will abuse you.  What could
> be more painful?
>
> hato vA prApsyasi svargaM jitvA vA bhokShyase mahIm |
> tasmAduttiShTha kaunteya yuddhAya kR^itanishchayaH ||6|24|37|| (Gita 2:37)
>
> "Killed, you will reach Heaven. Victorious you will enjoy the Earth.
> Therefore arise son of Kunti and resolve to fight!"
>
> sukhaduHkhe same kR^itvA lAbhAlAbhau jayAjayau |
> tato yuddhAya yujyasva naivaM pApam avApsyasi ||6|24|38|| (Gita 2:38)
>
> "Holding pleasure and pain the same, gain and loss, victory and defeat,
> prepare for battle and you will not incur sin."
>
>
> However as we shall see, Krishna Bhagavan ultimately has a different
> opinion on dharma which I shall discuss in part 3 of this post.
>
> Back to the GitAparvan for now, there is another set of shlokas in the
> last adhyaya which I wish to show to illustrate how kshatriyas understood
> their dharma.
>
> The Gita has been spoken and Arjuna has been reassured and he returns to
> the Pandava lines ready to fight once again.  However Yudhisthira now
> comes forward and actually crosses over to the Kaurava side to the
> consternation of his brothers and his troops. Sanjaya narrates:
>
> evamAbhAShyamANo.api bhrAtR^ibhiH kurunandanaH |
> novAcha vAgyataH kiMchidgachchhatyeva yudhiShThiraH ||6|41|15||
>
> "Ignoring his brothers questions oh Kurunandana[5], Yudhisthira went
> silently onward without making a reply."
>
> [5] Dhrtarashtra
>
> tAnuvAcha mahAprAGYo vAsudevo mahAmanAH |
> abhiprAyo.asya viGYAto mayeti prahasanniva ||6|41|16||
>
> "Then with a smile the wise and great-souled Vasudeva[6] said, "I know
> what he intends to do."
>
> [6] Krishna Bhagavan.
>
> eSha bhIShmaM tathA droNaM gautamaM shAlyameva cha |
> anumAnya gurUn sarvAn yotsyate pArthivo.aribhiH ||6|41|17||
>
> "Partha[7] will only fight his enemies with the consent of Bhishma,
> Drona, Gautama[8], and Shalya[9], all his Gurus."
>
> [7] See note [1] above but here it means Yudhisthira.
>
> [8] Krpa who belongs to Gautama gotra.
>
> [9] Bhishma is the elder of the Kuru dynasty and Drona and Krpa taught the
> Pandavas shastras and warcraft but why is Shalya considered a guru?  He is
> their maternal uncle, the elder brother of Pandus' wife Madri, the mother
> of Nakula and Sahadeva.
>
> shruyate hi purAkalpe gurUnananumAnya yaH |
> yudhyate sa bhavedvyaktamapadhyAto mahattaraiH ||6|41|18||
>
> "It is said that in former times, when one fought without the permission
> of his Guru, he was despised by his betters."
>
> anumAnya yathAshAstraM yastu yudhyena mahattaraiH |
> dhruvastasya jayo yuddhe bhavediti matirmama ||6|41|19||
>
> "[But if] he did seek  permission and then took up arms to fight his
> betters, he would be assured of victory in battle.  This is my opinion."
>
> As I mentioned above, ultimately Krishna Bhagavan teaches a different
> orientation to dharma but it is noteworthy that He does not present it as
> His own or as something new or revolutionary.  Even here when He is giving
> His own opinion, He refers back to the conduct of former times.  And as
> Bhishma invokes the authority of the ancient ancestor kings such as Yayati
> and Nahusha, Krishna Bhagavan leapfrogs him by invoking _their_ ancestors
> Vivasvan, Manu and Ikshvaku (Gita 4:1) to support his views.
>
> Then follows a series of formulaic conversations where one by one
> Yudhisthira asks for permission to fight from each of the Gurus mentioned
> above.  Each of them say that if he had not come to them in this way they
> would have sworn to seek his total defeat but now they bless him that he
> should be victorious though they themselves will fight against him to the
> end.
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh