[Advaita-l] Samnyasa and Sankara's position?

[H S Chandramouli]

I am sorry I failed to add the following in the beginning.

Reg  << That does not mean these individuals were not fully liberated, nor
that the householder mode of life prohibits the acquisition of brahma
jnana. >>,

I agree. I am not saying they were not fully liberated

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 7:25 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 7:03 PM Akilesh Ayyar <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 8:20 AM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Slightly off the main topic of this particular post, but which is
>>> relevant
>>> for this thread as it has comeup in other posts in this thread, Sri
>>> Bhagavatpada makes this observation in his Bhashya on Mundaka Upanishad
>>> enjoining sanyasa for attaining jnana
>>>
>>> << ज्ञानमात्रे यद्यपि सर्वाश्रमिणामधिकारः, तथापि संन्यासनिष्ठैव
>>> ब्रह्मविद्या
>>> मोक्षसाधनं न कर्मसहितेति ‘भैक्षचर्यां चरन्तः’ (मु. उ. १ । २ । ११)
>>> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
>>> Mundaka?page=1&id=MD_C01_S02_V11&hl=%E0%A4%AD%E0%A5%88%E0%
>>> A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%
>>> E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%
>>> A4%A4%E0%A4%83>
>>>  ‘संन्यासयोगात्’ (मु. उ. ३ । २ । ६)
>>> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
>>> Mundaka?page=3&id=MD_C03_S02_V06&hl=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%82%E0%
>>> A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%
>>> E0%A4%97%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D>
>>>  इति च ब्रुवन्दर्शयति । >>
>>>
>>> <<  j~nAnamAtre yadyapi sarvAshramiNAmadhikAraH, tathApi
>>> saMnyAsaniShThaiva
>>> brahmavidyA mokShasAdhanaM na karmasahiteti ‘bhaikShacharyAM charantaH’
>>> (mu. u. 1 | 2 | 11) ‘saMnyAsayogAt’ (mu. u. 3 | 2 | 6) iti cha
>>> bruvandarshayati | >>.
>>>
>>> He follows this up there itself with
>>>
>>> << यत्तु गृहस्थेषु ब्रह्मविद्यासम्प्रदायकर्तृत्वादि लिङ्गं न तत्स्थितं
>>> न्यायं बाधितुमुत्सहते ; >>
>>>
>>> << yattu gRRihastheShu brahmavidyAsampradAyakartRRitvAdi li~NgaM na
>>> tatsthitaM nyAyaM  bAdhitumutsahate >>,
>>>
>>> He has indeed stated his stand vis a vis instances of gruhasthas like
>>> Janaka, Yajnavalkya etc  attaining jnAna.
>>>
>>
>> Namaste Chandramouliji,
>>
>> I think by this last passage he just means to say that the example of
>> householder sages can never show that the doing of rites or a sense of
>> doership ever *combine* with knowledge to cause liberation. That does
>> not mean these individuals were not fully liberated, nor that the
>> householder mode of life prohibits the acquisition of brahma jnana.
>> Knowledge alone liberates, not karma, but that does not mean ashrama
>> sannyasa required for the highest knowledge.
>>
>> In the commentary at the end of Mundaka at 3.2.11, Sankara says of
>> "parama-rsibhyah" -- "those great seers, starting with Brahma, through whom
>> that knowledge was successively handed down..." which clearly includes
>> householders, that they in fact "directly saw and realized Brahman."
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>
> Namaste Akilesh Ayyar Ji,
>
> Not so in my understanding. The first statement cited by me from the
> Mundaka Bhashya  is the declaration part by Sri Bhagavatpada. The rest is
> by way of clarification/response to objections. All I am saying is Sri
> Bhagavatpada has indeed addressed the objection and given his views. It may
> be accepatable or not. That is a different issue. As pointed out in my
> earlier post, there are several instances in the Bhashya where Sri
> Bhagavatpada has unambiguously declared that according to Shrutis, Ashrama
> SanyAsa is mandatory for attaining jnAna as well as for its fructification
> once attained. Undoubtedly later commentators have taken a different view
> aslo. Especially current day commentators. However, in my understanding,
> the position of sri Bhagavatpada is clear and unambiguous. But while
> bringing out different views even in respect of the position of Sri
> Bhagavatpada may be of interest to some extent, in my view any discussion
> on the finality of his position will not be fruitful.
>
> Regards
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:57 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 6:36 PM Akilesh Ayyar via Advaita-l <
>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Namaste Bhaskarji,
>>> > >
>>> > > May I ask how you would interpret the Aitareya introduction excerpts
>>> > that I
>>> > > posted? I would be quite interested to know. Particularly these
>>> quotes:
>>> > >
>>> > > *Not so... the constant habit of resorting to any particular house of
>>> > one's
>>> > > own is prompted by desire. When there is no clinging to any
>>> particular
>>> > > house of one's own, there follows begging alone, as a matter of
>>> > course...*
>>> > >
>>> > > and
>>> > >
>>> > > *From the fact that a fresh injunction of renunciation, despite its
>>> > > emergence as a matter of course (as in the case of a man of
>>> > illumination),
>>> > > is met with [footnote: In Br. Up. III v. I. etc. -- 'Knowing this
>>> very
>>> > > Self, the Brahmanas renounce...and lead a mendicant life."] ,it
>>> becomes
>>> > > evident that it is obligatory for the man of illumination.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The shruti passage quoted above has been interpreted differently by two
>>> > authorities:
>>> >
>>> > In the Jivanmukti viveka, Sri Vidyaranya takes this passage as
>>> authority
>>> > for vidvat sannyasa.  In the gloss to the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya for
>>> this
>>> > passage, Sri Anandagiri says 'this is a reference to paroksha jnana.'
>>> I
>>> > had pointed out this remark by Anandagiri ( I think in two places) to
>>> > renowned scholars some years back. Members here may please verify the
>>> above
>>> > and give their opinion.
>>> >
>>> > regards
>>> > subrahmanian.v
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>