[Advaita-l] MOKSHA or MUKTI

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

> Namaste
> A follow up question -
> What would be the key difference, in this nomenclature, between the
> 'GYAnI' and the jIvanmukta?
>
> Also, can we say that shravanAdi sAdhana-s are the ones that lead to
> GYAnam and also onwards to jIvanmukti as well? So there is no difference in
> the sAxAt sAdhanas which lead to GYAnam and the sAdhanas that are relevant
> to 'ripen' GYAnam to jIvanmukti?
>
> Thank you again for sharing your understanding.
> Om
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed 13 Feb, 2019, 8:48 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>>
>> Yes. That is correct.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 5:22 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Chandramouli ji
>>> You have expressed your perspective on this issue very unambiguously .
>>> "Brahmavidya culminates
>>> ONLY on attainment of such a status and not with the attainment of jnAna
>>> alone. "
>>>
>>> And elsewhere you also agreed with the idea that even after samyak
>>> GYAnam,
>>> there is a transitional phase before attaining jIvanmukti. In this
>>> transitional phase between GYAnam.and jIvanmukti, there could be vRttis
>>> opposed to GYAnam too which  might temporarily bother the GYAnI but they
>>> don't get the better of him.
>>>
>>> Would the above para faithfully represent what you have tried to say?
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Raghav
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed 13 Feb, 2019, 6:52 PM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:
>>>
>>> > Namaste Sri Bhaskar Ji,
>>> >
>>> > Reg  << one camp (the ‘is’ camp)  was saying during the post jnana
>>> period
>>> > (after samyak jnana / absolute realization) there is continuity of
>>> > identification with bhautika shareera by the jnAni and due to avidyA
>>> lesha
>>> > / prArabdha karma he is prone to get rAga-dvesha but survival of these
>>> > vrutti-s are very short (in time span) and his jnana would mitigate
>>> against
>>> > these bhAvana >>,
>>> >
>>> > While my understanding is generally in line with this, it is different
>>> in
>>> > respect of the succeeding part
>>> >
>>> > <<  If you want to have the absolute ‘freedom’ from these vrutti-s he
>>> has
>>> > to shed his mortal coil thence there is a gap between paramArtha jnana
>>> &
>>> > absolute mOksha >>.
>>> >
>>> >  It is not so. The jnAni can attain such “ freedom “ with the current
>>> body
>>> > itself. In fact in my understanding of the Bhashya, Brahmavidya
>>> culminates
>>> > ONLY on attainment of such a status and not with the attainment of
>>> jnAna
>>> > alone. That part of the sAdhana is temed vidvat sanyAsa. This state is
>>> in
>>> > the primary sense what is termed mOksha or kaivalya or vAishNavapada in
>>> > advaita sidhanta.
>>> >
>>> > Reg  << In short mind inert state samAdhi experience is mandatory to
>>> > ‘practically’ enjoy the ONENESS of Atman >>,
>>> >
>>> > Mind is not inert while enjoying ONENESS with the Atman. Rather it is
>>> more
>>> > appropriate to say scintillating rather than inert. I am inclined to
>>> > believe that the outpourings of the Shrutis themselves  were  perhaps
>>> when
>>> > the mantradrashtAs were in such a state only.
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 12:29 PM Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
>>> > > Hare Krishna
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   *   I think one decade back we had debated ( not a friendly
>>> discussion
>>> > > at any stretch of imagination 😊  ) this topic viciously in both
>>> advaitin
>>> > > and Advaita-L group.  I doubt you were there at that time.  Though I
>>> dare
>>> > > not to say I have completely understood your explanation with regard
>>> to
>>> > > “is” and “no” in this context, it would be nice to see some fresh
>>> air to
>>> > > clear the dirt. Anyway, here is my thoughts if at all it is worthy :
>>> > >
>>> > > I think the argument between the two camps is because of a
>>> > > misunderstanding of the meaning of the words "is" and "no" in the
>>> above
>>> > > sentence.  Does the existence denoted by the verb "is", pAramArthika
>>> sat?
>>> > > Does the negation referred to by "no", a pAramArthika niShedha, or a
>>> > > vyAvahArika niShedha? As I see it, if both sides see what is meant,
>>> there
>>> > > is no room for argument at all.
>>> > >
>>> > > The right meaning of the sentence "there is only jnAna", is as an
>>> > > akhaNDArtha vAkya, and thus "is" and "jnAna" refer to the svArUpa
>>> mAtra
>>> > of
>>> > > That, and not to the samsarga between "jnAna" and "is". So the
>>> meaning of
>>> > > the sentence is just like satyam jnAnam anantam of taittiriya.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Ø     To make a short summary of ‘is’ & ‘no’ in that discussion:  one
>>> > camp
>>> > > (the ‘is’ camp)  was saying during the post jnana period (after
>>> samyak
>>> > > jnana / absolute realization) there is continuity of identification
>>> with
>>> > > bhautika shareera by the jnAni and due to avidyA lesha / prArabdha
>>> karma
>>> > he
>>> > > is prone to get rAga-dvesha but survival of these vrutti-s are very
>>> short
>>> > > (in time span) and his jnana would mitigate against these bhAvana.
>>> If
>>> > you
>>> > > want to have the absolute ‘freedom’ from these vrutti-s he has to
>>> shed
>>> > his
>>> > > mortal coil thence there is a gap between paramArtha jnana & absolute
>>> > > mOksha.  The another camp (the ‘no’ camp) clarifying their stand that
>>> > jnAni
>>> > > is ashareeri only since ashareeratvaM is his svarUpa jnana as he is
>>> > brahman
>>> > > here in this very life though he is looking like dehavAn : vidvAn sa
>>> > ehaiva
>>> > > brahma yadyapi dehavaaniva lakshyate sa brahmaiva san brahmApyeti.
>>> So
>>> > > during the post jnana period though he is looking like sashareeri he
>>> is
>>> > not
>>> > > dehavAn hence no question of avidyA lesha,  no question of
>>> rAga-dvesha in
>>> > > him.  If at all it appears that he is engaging himself in
>>> questionable
>>> > > action, the socalled action and interpretation of it is only by  the
>>> > > ajnAni-s who donot think beyond BMI.  In short a strict NO NO to
>>> jnAni’s
>>> > > rAga-dvesha / avidyA lesha.  And linking continuation of shareera
>>> due to
>>> > > avidyAlesha and linking it with prArabdha karma and treating both
>>> > > avidyAlesha and prArabdha karma  as synonyms is quite untenable as
>>> there
>>> > is
>>> > > no direct link that can be established between jnAni’s action and his
>>> > > remnants  of avidyA.
>>> > >
>>> > > I agree. Any exhortation to do nothing but remain in samAdhi all the
>>> time
>>> > > is born out of a misunderstanding - for samAdhi is as much
>>> vyavahAra, as
>>> > > any other laukika activity.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Ø     However, some stalwarts of Advaita sampradaya categorically
>>> > declared
>>> > > that shravaNAdi shAstra jnana is like an instruction manual helping
>>> the
>>> > > aspirant  to  understand the intricacies  of ‘swimming’ if you want
>>> to
>>> > > really experience the ‘joy’ of swimming you have to dive in the pool
>>> and
>>> > > swim.  In short mind inert state samAdhi experience is mandatory to
>>> > > ‘practically’ enjoy the ONENESS of Atman.  Hence shAstra vAkya janita
>>> > jnana
>>> > > is vrutti rUpa jnana and samAdhi is ‘phala rUpa jnAna’.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   *   Hope I am not opening the can of worms once again here.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>> > > bhaskar
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>>