[Advaita-l] Is the eternity and apaurusheyatva of Vedas a me

[Siva Senani Nori]

Namaste Sudhanshu ji
The arguments of Nyaya for accepting Vedapraamaanya are indeed logical and accepted by Advaita-acharyas (please see the commentary on शास्त्रयोनित्वात्). They merely shift the axiom from Veda being pramaana, to the existence of Ishvara being the basis [1] (they don't call it an axiom, but argue that - since an advaitin has no dispute with the truth of Isvara, he has no problem with those arguments). 
The axiom here is that Veda is a Pramaana. Since Veda is a Pramaana, Vedic injunctions like स्वर्गकामो यजेत are valid.
The axiomatic aspect can be seen in the Acarya's definition of Sraddha (Gitabhashya on श्रद्धावान् लभते ज्ञानम् defines it as *faith* in Sastra (=Veda + Smriti) and Guru). 

Regards,
Senani
[1] Nyayasutras also give the reason that Veda is a pramaana because it is seen that Vedic mantras to cure scorpion bite etc. work just like Ayurvedic medicines work. 
 
 
  On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 7:31 PM, Sudhanshu Shekhar<sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:   Namaste Sivasenani Nori ji,
Completely in tune with what you said. However, just a couple of clarifications:-
//Vedapraamaanya does not necessarily require Apaurusheyatva//. 
1. I understand that there are other systems which accept the pramanya of Vedas without considering them apaurusheya. Do you find their acceptance logical?
2. Statements such "By jyotishtoma one gets swarg" and the logic used by Bhashyakara in Brahma Sutra 3.1.25 do not appear to place Vedic statements as certain kind of axioms required for presentations of a formal system. They rather appear to be statements having their own validity. They neither intend to prove anything nor do they require any other thing for their own proof. 
Regards.Sudhanshu.


On Fri 7 Jun, 2019, 19:16 Siva Senani Nori via Advaita-l, <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

Apaurusheyatva of Veda (or Ishvara whose nishvasa is Veda) is a matter of belief. 
There are arguments to counter those who say Veda is paurusheya, and it is only indirectly that this refutation establishes Apaurusheyatva. 
Other observations:
Vedapraamaanya does not necessarily require Apaurusheyatva. Naiyaayikas maintain that Veda is paurusheya and treat Veda as a Pramana. For them the authority of Veda derives from that of Ishvara whose existence is established by anumaana. 
Followers of Sankhya do not believe in Ishvara but believe in the praamaanya of Veda, though Veda is not the reason for their main entity, Purusha (it is anumaana which proves the existence of Purusha). 
Further, axioms - ie belief that certain statements are true without there being proof - are fundamentally necessary for any system of thought, science etc. and for theorems or theses therein to be 'proved'.
Please see Godel's Incompleteness theorems to understand the limitations, or incompleteness as he puts it, of formal systems, which our darshanas are once we remove the 'anubhava' part. At any rate many seem to think that Advaita is rigorously logical - it does have a lot of rigorous logic, but that occupies a secondary place: Brahman is, because the Veda says so (It can be experienced but not proven), but It cannot be even described fully, let alone be proven. 

Regards,
Senani 

  On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 1:46 PM, Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:   Hari Om,

we all agree that the basis of Dharma and Brahma-jnana is Vedas alone.
Vedas are the tool to both abhyudaya and nihshreyas. Further, we hold them
to be a pramana. That is the Veda-vakyas are pramana just by virtue of
being a Veda-vakya. The reasons adduced are mainly the apurusheyatva and
eternity of Vedas.

We all have gone through the arguments adduced in support of eternity and
apurusheyatva of Vedas.

My question is -- do these arguments really establish the eternity and
apaurusheyatva of Vedas OR are these our beliefs. That is, whether our
Sanatan Dharma and our sadhana-for-Moksha are essentially belief-driven or
are they based on sound logic.

Regards.
Sudhanshu.
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