[Advaita-l] Relationship between Brahman and avidyA

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

    On Sunday, June 23, 2019, 01:52:10 PM EDT, Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:  
 

The fact that there is nothing but Brahman -- and the fact that vyavaharika is even being discussed -- does it not indicate contradiction?
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Sudhanshuji - PraNAms.
You have to recognize that the very contradiction that is apparent is also at vyavahaarika level. If you have understood that there is nothing other than Brahman - All these discussions have no relevance.
Contractions are inherent in vyavahaara. 
It starts from the fact that 'I am' being a subject take 'this' which is an object as myself - that is the fundamental contradiction as - 'I am this'. 'I am this' - is ahankaara or ego. The subject cannot be an object - that is a fundamental contradiction. 
The cause for taking myself what I am not is attributed to avidya of my own self. The rest of the contradictions and teaching to those who recognize these contradictions follow. 
Another contradiction is looking for happiness in the objects where it is it is not there. Knowing that it is not there and still going after the object is a bigger contradiction - that too, life after life. 
For those who recognize these contraditions, only the teaching by Vedanta follows. 
The only solution to the problem is recognizing that there is a fundamental avidya in taking myself what I am not - that includes this discussion too and try to solve that problem. All the contradictions become only apparent and not real.  
Best Wishes.
Hari Om!Sadananda




On Sun 23 Jun, 2019, 22:56 kuntimaddi sadananda, <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

Sudhansuji - PraNAms
If there is nothing other than Brahman (being infiniteness) by definition avidya has to rest in Brahman only. If not, we have advaita haani. Hence locus or substantive of avidya as well as it counterpart -vidyaa have to be Brahman. At the same time, Brahman cannot have avidyaa too. Hence the contradiction is resolved by recognizing that avidya as well as it's counterpart, vidyaa, are at vyaavahaarika level only. 
But for transactional purposes, we can say avidya is located on the Jeeva, who has not understood his real nature. Hence avidya gets destroyed at the Jeeva level only - all at vyavahaarika level. At paarmaarthika level - na vaak gacchati, na manaH; yad gatvaa na nivartante apraapya manasaa saH - no description of Brahman is possible. Hence all the pointers are only from vyaavahaarika point to a jeeva who is confused. Realization involves as Subbuji pointed out - aham brahamaasmi - I was, I am and I shall be. akarthaaham abhoktaaham ahamevaham avyayaH.  Hence realization involves only a re-cognition of the true state of affairs. 'Ignorance I never had I lost!' - That losing is also at vyavahaara. 
By the by, the point you have raised is also one of the seven objections against Advaita avidya by Shree Ramanuja in his Shree Bhasya of Brahmasutras. 
Hari Om!Sadananda
 

    On Sunday, June 23, 2019, 11:50:15 AM EDT, Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Hari Om Acharya Sada ji
These are irresistible questions and hence your response is natural.
//Since the substantive of Jeeva-jagat-Iswara is Brahman only, in the final analysis - the substantive of even avidya is also Brahman.//

Can you elaborate upon this a bit more? What exactly do you mean by Brahman as the substantive of avidyA? Let us forget everything else and concentrate on Brahman and avidyA because in the final analysis, only these two are left. 
Sudhanshu.



On Sun 23 Jun, 2019, 20:15 kuntimaddi sadananda, <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

. Should that mean that the inquiry for relationship between Brahman and avidyA ismeaningless.

Sudhanshu.-------------------------
 
PraNAms

These discussionsindicate normal confusion that arises when one switches the references states.Here are some points for contemplation. 

 1. There cannot beanything other than Brahman, by definition since Brahman means infiniteness.

 2. Hence from Brahmanpoint, there is no inquirer nor inquired. 

 3. Hence questions canarise only from the point of vyaavahaarika reference where there a triad -jeeva-jagat and Iswara - the substantive of all the three being Brahman only,again by definition - since there cannot be anything other than Brahman. 

 4. The questions arisebecause of avidya or ignorance only - which by nature is anaadi or beginning-less.No ignorance can have a beginning. 

 5. Locus of avidya -It is jeeva since he feels the triad is real. 

 6. Since thesubstantive of Jeeva-jagat-Iswara is Brahman only, in the final analysis - thesubstantive of even avidya is also Brahman. 

 7. Hence we also saylocus of avidya is Brahman; and yet from Brahman references, there is noavidya, nor jeeva-jagat-Iswara triad.

 8. There is nocontradiction here since the reference states (paaramaarthika vs vyaavaharika)are different. Krishna makes a declarative statement to this effect -..mastaani sarva bhuutani (all being are in Me) and in the very next slokaagain says ... na cha mastaani bhuutaani (no beings in Me). One isvyaavahaarika and the other is paaramaarthika states. 

 9. What is therelationship between Brahman and avidya or even Brahman and the triad. 

 10. When from Brahmanpoint there is nothing other than Brahman- a discussion of any relationship hasno meaning from that reference.

 11. From thereferences of jeeva - we can say it is relation-less-relationship or mithyaa.From the Iswara point, scriptures call him as sarvajna and sarvavit (Mundaka) -Hence he has no avidya - we call it as maayaa shakti. maayaa is yaa maa saamaayaa - that which is not there but appears to be there. 
 12. From myunderstanding, it is futile to discuss the avidya as bhaava ruupa. While avidyaprovides lack of understanding the underlying truth (non-apprehension) theprojection is done by maayaa shakti or Iswara level and nidraa shakti at jeevalevel during the dream state and vaasanaa shakti involving likes and dislikesprojected on top of Iswara sRishti. In essence, mind is required for projection- either global mind or local mind. At Iswara level - tat aikshataa - bahusyaam- prajaayeyeti - involves projection involving the global mind. 
Could not resist.
 Hari Om!

Sadananda