[Advaita-l] No Parinama in Brahman says Shankara Bhagavatpada
sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com
Thu Jun 27 08:26:12 EDT 2019
Hari Om Acharya Sada ji,
Let us not go into AnyaonyAshraya-dosha. I am on something else. Does this
very talk about vyAvahArika imply change or not? I type, you read, we speak
the word - a change is implied.
- How can this be possible if Brahman is the sole singular changeless
entity? It is not possible.
So there has to be something else. And that thing is non-Brahman.
- If non-Brahman is indeed there, infiniteness of Brahman is compromised.
- If non-Brahman is indeed not there, how is non-Brahman appearing to be
there? Barren woman's son never even appears. And barren woman's son does
not have a self.
- If non-Brahman is mere appearance and it is really not there (that is
only Brahman is there), its coming about implies change and we have a
contradiction with changelessness.
Let us go to the root of vyavahArika, pAramArthika, projection, anAditva,
frame of reference etc - and that root thing is change. Everything is
reduced to change and changeless. We should apply our mind there. Many
thanks for your indulgence in my doubts.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:29 PM kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> //None can succeed in proving the rope undergoes a change when
> someone imagines a snake in it.//
> It is not a question of rope undergoing change or not. This whole process
> of someone+imagining+rope+as+snake involves change and that is impossible
> if Brahman is sole singular changeless infinite entity.
> Sudhanshuji - PraNAms
> You are right. The missing link here - from Brahman point there is no
> creation what so ever - end of the story.
> The projection requires a mind. To see the snake where the rope is - The
> projecting mind is involved. The mind has to be created first for
> projection. This is what is called anonya ashraya dosha. It is similar to
> seed first or tree first. Hence Shankara says - anirvachaneeyam -
> Hence mind that is projecting is not created - it is part of the anaadi
> system. Hence creation-sustenance-and dissolution is a cycle without a
> What need to be recognized is the whole cycle itself is within the
> vyavahaara reference.
> From Brahman - it is one without a second - neither ropes nor snakes.
> Unless one appreciates these two reference states, the essence will not be
> Hence the declaration - shraddhavaan labhate jnaanam - says, Krishna.
> and shraddhaa is defined by Shankara as - shaastrasya guru vaakyasya
> satya budhyaavadhaarnaa - faith in the scriptuers and in the teaching of
> these scriptures by the Guru are essence and for the person who has that
> shraddha only knowledge takes place as per Krishna's above statement.
> Hari Om!
> No. It does not help. Hare's horn cannot be perceived by barren woman's
> son. If we equate our perception of world with this, then that is obviously
> incorrect. It does not require any Shastra.
> On Thu 27 Jun, 2019, 05:02 Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > Namaste Sudhanshu ji,
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 8:02 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > > Venkataraghavan ji,
> > >
> > > //4) Creation is only an appearance.
> > > 5) Appearances do not exist.//
> > >
> > > Appearance has a certain physical process behind it. Some laws of
> > > govern it. Hare's horn cannot have even an appearance. Coming about of
> > > appearance implies change. Hence, appearance implies change -
> > in
> > > something. And that militates against changelessness.
> > >
> > > This is my problem.
> > >
> > Would it help even a bit if we say that Maya, imagination, creation,
> > janmadi shaDvikAra, hetu, phala, sambandha, etc, is all tuccha, not
> > or would you still ask then: how do you explain this vyavahara vyavasta/
> > anubhava? I'm just curious.
> > gauDapAdAchAryebhyo namaH,
> > --Praveen R. Bhat
> > /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know
> > That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
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