[Advaita-l] How is an object perceived.

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Thank you ji for the clarification.

Om


On Tue, 14 Apr, 2020, 12:50 PM H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>
> Reg  << Now in this context, I understand you to be saying that SB does
> not endorse
> this idea that the mind spatially extending itself to envelop the object
> whereas VP dies propound this idea >>,
>
> Oh no. I am sorry if I have conveyed a wrong impression. According to both
> SB and VP, not being very finicky about terminology, mind or its vritti
> extends spatially right upto the object and envelops or pervades the same.
> As per VP, Subject Consciousness in the form of Chidabhasa rides along with
> the vritti upto the object. SB does not support the idea of Subject
> Consciousness extending upto the object. It remains confined to the body.
> That is the difference highlighted by Prof Bina Gupta in her book and
> referred to by Sadananda Ji.
>
> It may be pertinent to point out that the ideas presented in SB are not
> the views of Sri MS per se, but a compilation by him of the various
> prakriyas expounded by different advaitic teachers upto that time on
> different topics concerning advaita. It is more like SLS of Sri Appayya
> Dikshita. Except that the scope of SLS is much wider than that of SB. Hence
> it really may not correct to attribute the views on epistemology brought
> out here to Sri MS himself. They could represent the views of other
> commentators on the issue as of that time.
>
> Reg  << Chronologically both VP and SB are nearly contemporaneous.
>
> So, are you suggesting that VP supercedes SB or is it the other way around?
> >>,
>
> Sri MS (14-16 Centuries) is much earlier to Dharmaraja Adhvarindra (17 th
> Century ).
>
> VP is generally accepted as most representative of advaitic thought in so
> far as epistemology is concerned.
>
> Regards
>
>
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> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:00 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Chandramouli ji
>> Thank you for drawing attention to the VP and Siddhanta Bindu (SB) ways of
>> presenting pratyaxa epistemology.
>>
>> " in
>> the view of VP, the Subject extends upto the location of the object
>> alongside the vritti, and  Subject Consciousness and object Consciousness
>> become one or united at the location of the object."
>>
>>
>> This used to be a bit of a sticking point for me earlier. Probably because
>> of pre-existing scientific conditioning ingrained in me.
>>
>> Now in this context, I understand you to be saying that SB does not
>> endorse
>> this idea that the mind spatially extending itself to envelop the object
>> whereas VP dies propound this idea.
>>
>> Chronologically both VP and SB are nearly contemporaneous.
>>
>> So, are you suggesting that VP supercedes SB or is it the other way
>> around?
>>
>> Om
>> Raghav
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr, 2020, 5:06 PM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l, <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > The main point of difference Prof Bina Gupta is trying to highlight is
>> that
>> > in the view of MS, the Subject stays in the body without extending to
>> the
>> > location of the object and hence there is no question of the
>> Consciousness
>> > associated with the respective entities becoming one or united. While in
>> > the view of VP, the Subject extends upto the location of the object
>> > alongside the vritti, and  Subject Consciousness and object
>> Consciousness
>> > become one or united at the location of the object.
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > <
>> >
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>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:21 PM H S Chandramouli <
>> hschandramouli at gmail.com
>> > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,
>> > >
>> > > A partial response.
>> > >
>> > > Reg  << Personally I do not seeany difference >>,
>> > >
>> > > I am copyig below relevant part of the translation of Sishanta Bindu
>> of
>> > > Sri Madhusudhana Saraswati by Sri SN Shastri based on the talks on the
>> > same
>> > > by Sri Krishnamurthy Shastrigal.
>> > >
>> > > << Thus this is the method here. (This is how cognition of an object
>> > > takes place). The internal organ (mind) which is inside the body,
>> which
>> > > pervades the whole body, which is created out of the subtle elements
>> > > with a preponderance of sattvaguna, which is a modification of
>> > > nescience, and which is extremely clear like a mirror, stretches out
>> > > through the eyes and other sense organs, pervades objects such as a
>> pot
>> > > which are capable of being known, and takes the form of that object,
>> just
>> > > like molten copper (poured into a mould). Like the light of the sun,
>> it
>> > > (the
>> > > mind) can suddenly contract or expand. (The light covers small as
>> well as
>> > > big objects). The mind, being a substance with parts, is capable of
>> > > undergoing changes. It is inside the body, pervading it, and extends,
>> > > without any break, up to the object such as pot, which it covers (by
>> > > taking the form of the object), like the eye (just as the vision of
>> the
>> > eye
>> > > extends from the eye to the object without a break). The part of the
>> mind
>> > > which is within the body, which is called the ego, is known as the
>> agent.
>> > > The part that extends like a stick from the body to the object, which
>> is
>> > > called the cognition resulting from a mental modification
>> > (vritti-jnaana),
>> > > is known as the action. The part of the mind that pervades the object
>> is
>> > > what makes the pot, etc., the object of knowledge. It is called the
>> > > capacity
>> > > to manifest.
>> > > 87. Because of the capacity of the mind with these three parts to
>> receive
>> > > a reflection (like a mirror), consciousness becomes manifested
>> > (reflected)
>> > > in it. Though the consciousness so manifested is only one, it is given
>> > > three different names, based on the three-fold division of the mind in
>> > > which it is reflected. The part that is limited by the portion called
>> the
>> > > agent is known as the knower. The part limited by the portion
>> referred to
>> > > above as the action is called the means of knowledge. The part
>> covering
>> > > the object, described above as the capacity to manifest, is called
>> > > knowledge. The object to be known is the Brahman-consciousness which
>> > > is the substratum of the object and which is unknown. The same, when
>> > > known, is the phala or result >>.
>> > >
>> > > Differences from VP are evident.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > <
>> >
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>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 8:38 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda via Advaita-l <
>> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> PraNAms to all.
>> > >>
>> > >> Many years ago I had written my own understanding of
>> > >> VedantaParibhasha(VP).
>> > >>
>> > >> I am just revisiting the issue of perception.
>> > >>
>> > >> I was reading the book by Prof. Bina Gupta, Perceiving in
>> > >> AdvaitaVedanta', where she presents the analysis of VP. In the
>> > introduction
>> > >> shewrites, "Although there aredifference of opinions among the
>> > Advaitins as
>> > >> to how an object becomes manifestto the subject, most of them
>> recognize
>> > the
>> > >> two-fold function of a mental-modeentitled in an external perception:
>> > the
>> > >> removal of the veil of ignorance thathides the object from the
>> subject
>> > and
>> > >> the association between the subjectconsciousness and the object. (She
>> > gives
>> > >> reference to Madhusudana Saraswati'swork). Then she says ' A slightly
>> > >> modified account of the process involved inperception, however, is
>> set
>> > >> forth in VP and explained by Paribhasha Prakashika.She says, 'The
>> view
>> > that
>> > >> is propounded in modification of the above accountespouses a mere
>> > literal
>> > >> coincidence of the object-consciousness and
>> thecognizer-consciousness.
>> > The
>> > >> cognizing subject is here understood to beco-extensive with the mind,
>> > which
>> > >> is the limiting adjunct of the cognizingsubject. In a perceptual
>> > process,
>> > >> the subject co-extensive with the mind andits modes extends itself to
>> > the
>> > >> object and coincides with it. This is possiblebecause the
>> consciousness
>> > >> limited by the mental -mode and the consciousnesslimited by the
>> object
>> > >> become one or united.
>> > >>
>> > >> Personally I do not seeany difference.
>> > >>
>> > >> Question is always -how does the perception of an objectoccur?
>> > >>
>> > >> We have a) The all-pervading consciousness, b) the mind
>> c)chidaabhaasa -
>> > >> at the subject level.
>> > >>
>> > >> And from the object point -we have object form which can be sensedand
>> > >> forms corresponding vritti a modification in or of the mind.
>> > >> Theall-pervading consciousness now can get reflected by the Vritti.
>> That
>> > >> makes onebe conscious of the vRitti or indirectly the perceived
>> object
>> > >> outside.Simultaneously and spontaneously a subject vRtti or aham
>> vRitti
>> > >> (which is anego-vRitti) also raises claiming the knowledge as 'I know
>> > this
>> > >> is a pot' whenpot is perceived. This is a general description.
>> > >>
>> > >> It is assumed that the mind perceives the illuminatedconsciousness of
>> > the
>> > >> Vritti and the knowledge of the contents of the Vrittibecomes known
>> to
>> > the
>> > >> mind - as phala vyaapti.
>> > >>
>> > >> The details and the sequence is rather clouded here. Trying tounwrap
>> > this
>> > >> process to have some clear understanding if possible.
>> > >>
>> > >> Also, how is process differ from the point of Shree
>> > MadhusudanaSaraswati?
>> > >>
>> > >> Any thoughts on this?
>> > >>
>> > >> Just exploring.
>> > >>
>> > >> Hari Om!
>> > >>
>> > >> Sadananda
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
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