[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Brahman, in absolute terms, is Nirguna and Nirakara (devoid of attributes and form)

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Subbu ji

Thanks for sharing the Padma purANa verses about Uddhava and Krishna.

We also have the advaitic concept of 'avataara' whereby even without
mUlAvidyA which leads to punarjanma etc., Brahman directly can manifest as
an avataara form available for vyavahaarika transactions such as bhagavan
Krishna,  etc. It can similarly be said that even such vyavahaarika forms
such as Vishnu, Shiva etc., are 'available', so to speak, for transaction
in satya loka. This is indirectly mentioned in the bhAShya and more clearly
endorsed by Sri Appayya Dixita who mentions vaikunTha, kaikaSha as
equivalent words for satya loka/brahma loka. These daivika forms of Krishna
in bhUloka, Prathamaja-BrahmA in satyaloka etc., are not merely mentally
imagined by the sadhaka as per his purusha-tantra imagination (no doubt
conforming to shAstra) rather, a *stronger" assertion can be made that they
have independent vyavahaarika sattaa as, say, a tree, mountain, planet
earth, the Sun, other lokas (whose existence is no doubt known only through
shAstra but they do exist independent of any upAsana context.)


The reason I mention the above is that, some students of Advaita wrongly
think that these forms (like Shiva, Vishnu etc) are merely useful
*imaginations* endorsed by shAstra rather than actually available in a
higher loka.

The problem with such an idea (that the forms of Vishnu etc. , are merely
healthy shastric imagination) is that the forms of Shiva, Vishnu etc.,
become in a sense less than vyavahaarika, and they are just useful
imaginations. This is akin to an adolescent being told to read and dwell
upon some fictional character in a novel in order to inculcate some
desirable quality. I believe Advaita does not say that the forms are only
for useful imagination.

Advaita says that the avataara forms of bhUloka and similarly,
hiraNyagarbha/ brahmA of satya loka having daivika forms like Shiva etc.
(constituted by other subtler panchabhUtas like Akasha in satya loka, in
contrast to the pArthiva forms of humans) independently existing (in other
lokas) rather than being merely conjured up for the sake of fruitful
upAsana.

There is a mention probably in kena bhAShya (I am unable to locate the
reference)  that the forms mentioned in shAstra (shAstra-chodita forms
presumably of Shiva etc), actually exist. (in as much as mention of svarga
or naraka which are revealed by shAstra, is not merely for didactic
purposes to disincentivize pApa - rather, svarga and naraka are post-mortem
states that may be actually attained by some).

Om



On Thu, 10 Dec, 2020, 5:50 am V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> The Srimad Bhagavata Mahatmya in the Padma Purana
>
>
> https://www.bharattemples.com/shrimadbhagavatamahatmyam/
>
> अतः सत्सु दयां कृत्वा भक्तवत्सल मा व्रज ।
> भक्तार्थं सगुणो जातो निराकारोऽपि चिन्मयः ॥ ५८॥
>
> Uddhava pleads to Krishna: Be merciful to these exalted devotees. Do not
> forsake them. Though you are Nirakara and Chinmaya, you assume a saguNa
> form for the sake of the devotees.
>
>
> त्वद्वियोगेन ते भक्ताः कथं स्थास्यन्ति भूतले ।
> निर्गुणोपासने कष्टमतः किंचिद्विचारय ॥ ५९॥
> How can your devotees bear your separation and live on on this earth?
> Nirgunopasana is tough. Hence, reconsider your decision (to leave).
>
> In these words of Uddhava we observe: Para Brahman is, in absolute terms,
> Nirguna, Pure Consciousness. However, for the sake of Bhaktas, Sadhakas, a
> saguna form is assumed.  Nirguna Upasana is not easy for ordinary sadhakas.
>
>
> These ideas find supreme consummation in the Advaitic Bhashya. Shankara
> says:
>
> 1.3.20 अन्तस्तद्धर्मोपदेशात् ॥ २० ॥
> स्यात्परमेश्वरस्यापीच्छावशान्मायामयं रूपं साधकानुग्रहार्थम् , ‘माया ह्येषा
> मया सृष्टा यन्मां पश्यसि नारद । सर्वभूतगुणैर्युक्तं मैवं मां ज्ञातुमर्हसि’
> इति स्मरणात् । अपि च, यत्र तु निरस्तसर्वविशेषं पारमेश्वरं रूपमुपदिश्यते,
> भवति तत्र शास्त्रम् ‘अशब्दमस्पर्शमरूपमव्ययम्’ (क. उ. १ । ३ । १५) इत्यादि ।
> सर्वकारणत्वात्तु विकारधर्मैरपि कैश्चिद्विशिष्टः परमेश्वर उपास्यत्वेन
> निर्दिश्यते — ‘सर्वकर्मा सर्वकामः सर्वगन्धः सर्वरसः’ (छा. उ. ३ । १४ । २)
> इत्यादिना । तथा हिरण्यश्मश्रुत्वादिनिर्देशोऽपि भविष्यति ।
>
> The gist of the above is: Even though Brahman is nirakara, nirguna, on the
> basis of the Upanishadic passages such as 'ashabdam asparsham....' devoid
> of sound, form, touch, etc. (Kathopanishat), yet with a view to facilitate
> upasana,  the Upanishads also admit a form / attributes such as 'endowed
> with golden mustache, doer of all actions, edowed with all smell, all
> taste...' In the Mahabharata, Shanti Parva, the Lord instructs Narada: What
> you see as this expansive world, my form, is really a projection of Maya.
> Do not know me to be endowed with these attributes. Thereby the Lord
> indicated the true, absolute form as formless and also the assumed
> universal form, vishva rupa. He specifically says that he is not endowed
> with the attributes.
>
>
> In this manner, the Padma Purana's Bhagavata Mahatmya confirms that the
> saguna form is for the sake of blessing the sadhakas.
>
>
> Further, the idea that Niguna Upasana is difficult to accomplish, is also
> found in the following commentary of Shankata to the Bh.Gita 12.5:
>
> क्लेशोऽधिकतरस्तेषामव्यक्तासक्तचेतसाम् ।
> अव्यक्ता हि गतिर्दुःखं देहवद्भिरवाप्यते ॥ ५ ॥
> क्लेशः अधिकतरः, यद्यपि मत्कर्मादिपराणां क्लेशः अधिक एव क्लेशः अधिकतरस्तु
> अक्षरात्मनां परमात्मदर्शिनां देहाभिमानपरित्यागनिमित्तः ।
> अव्यक्तासक्तचेतसाम् अव्यक्ते आसक्तं चेतः येषां ते अव्यक्तासक्तचेतसः तेषाम्
> अव्यक्तासक्तचेतसाम् । अव्यक्ता हि यस्मात् या गतिः अक्षरात्मिका दुःखं सा
> देहवद्भिः देहाभिमानवद्भिः अवाप्यते, अतः क्लेशः अधिकतरः ॥ ५ ॥
>
>
> Here the Brahman that is avyakta, unmanifest, is taught to be tough. In the
> previous verse it is stated that:
>
> ये त्वक्षरमनिर्देश्यमव्यक्तं पर्युपासते ।
> सर्वत्रगमचिन्त्यं च कूटस्थमचलं ध्रुवम् ॥ ३ ॥
>
> Brahman that is known by terms such as Akshara, that which does not
> deplete, that which cannot be pointed out, anirdeshya, that is beyond the
> grasp of the senses and other organs, that which is immutable, beyond
> thought, unshakable, firm, all pervading, the unchanging witness, ..
>
> It is extremely difficult to meditate on Brahman of such a nature. It is
> also to be appreciated that the terms 'saguna and nirguna' of the Padma
> Purana mean the same as what is obtaining in the Shankara Bhashya.
>
>
>
> The verses of the Padma Purana are rendered thus in this text:
>
> https://sa.wikisource.org/s/ijn
> साधूनां रक्षणायैव त्वमाविरभवः प्रभो ६१
> निर्गुणोऽपि निराकारः सच्चिदानंदविग्रहः
> त्वद्वियोगेन ते भक्ताः कथं स्थास्यंति भूतले ६२
> निर्गुणोपासने कष्टमतोऽस्मद्धितमाचर
>
> Also, in many other books the following version is also seen:
>
> https://www.bharattemples.com/shrimadbhagavatamahatmyam/
>
> and -
> https://tinyurl.com/yy955p92
> अतः सत्सु दयां कृत्वा भक्तवत्सल मा व्रज ।
> भक्तार्थं सगुणो जातो निराकारोऽपि चिन्मयः ॥ ५८॥
> त्वद्वियोगेन ते भक्ताः कथं स्थास्यन्ति भूतले ।
> निर्गुणोपासने कष्टमतः किंचिद्विचारय ॥ ५९॥
>
> Yet, there is no contradiction in the meaning.
>
> Om Tat Sat
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