[Advaita-l] Why did Brahman create the world?

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
The statement " viz., ignorance is not revealed by the mind, its effect,
but by the sAkshi" based on naishkarmya siddhi  (तस्य हि स्वरूपमेवाज्ञानं न
हि स्वतोऽज्ञानस्याज्ञानं घटते । ) is itself unexceptionable, but is not the
best fit in the present context. Correct?

But i now get the slight difference in the two ideas, viz., the word
gochara being object ('viShaya' about which ignorance is, as pointed out by
Subbu ji and fits the context.) and the other idea being 'revealed/grasped
by' which is the sense i was also taking it in.

1. avidyA has as its Ashraya and gochara (viShaya), nirguNam brahma itself.

2. the jIva is the effect and cannot be the object (viShaya or gochara) of
avidyA which is pUrvasiddha or posterior, (being the cause).



Thank you

Om
Raghav



On Sun, 2 Feb, 2020, 12:53 AM Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Raghav ji,
> Subbuji's interpretation of nApi gocara: fits the Sloka better.
>
> Essentially, the object of ignorance cannot be a product of ignorance
> itself, because ignorance always presupposes its object - i.e the ignorance
> is always 'of something', and that object cannot be the effect of
> ignorance, which is logically posterior.
>
> I had an alternative interpretation, which admittedly doesn't fit the
> context as well as the above - viz., ignorance is not revealed by the mind,
> its effect, but by the sAkshi. This was based on what sureshvarAchArya says
> (in the naiShkarmyasiddhi quote I had provided in the email earlier)
>
> However, the interpretation of gocara: as viShaya in this context fits
> better - the objective of the shArIrakAkAra here is to say that it is
> nirguNa chaitanya that is the locus and object of ignorance.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020, 13:03 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
>> Regarding gocharo'pi na bhavati, how do we address examples like the child
>> can know the mother etc.?
>>
>> I would presume we should attach an upAdhi to the syllogism such as,
>> "X cannot know X's *upAdAna* kAraNam"?
>>
>> Om
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Feb, 2020, 3:58 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Namaste Subbuji, Praveenji
>> >
>> > There is a Sloka from the samkshepa shAriraka that captures both ideas -
>> > that the effect not only cannot be the locus of the cause and that it
>> > cannot grasp / know the cause:
>> >
>> > आश्रयत्वविषयत्वभागिनी निर्विभागचितिरेव केवला ।
>> > पूर्वसिद्धतमसो हि पश्चिमो *नाश्रयो भवति नापि गोचरः॥*
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Venkatraghavan
>> >
>> > On Fri, 31 Jan 2020, 11:48 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dear Praveen ji,
>> > >
>> > > Kindly ignore this voice message as it did not record my voice
>> correctly.
>> > >
>> > > I wanted to say:  The jiva that is a product of avidya cannot be the
>> > locus
>> > > and object of avidya.  Only Nirguna Brahman can be the locus and
>> object
>> > for
>> > > avidya. In other words, avidya has to have Brahman for its locus and
>> it
>> > > conceals Brahman. It cannot have the jiva, which is a product of
>> avidya,
>> > > for its locus and object.  I recalled this after seeing your words:
>> > >
>> > > //..  that which is created after (if at all there is a created and an
>> > > after), cannot ever know the former.//
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 5:11 PM V Subrahmanian <
>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
>> > >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > (voice note)
>> > > >
>> > > > regards
>> > > > subbu
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:58 PM Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l <
>> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Namaste Raghavji,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:43 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via
>> Advaita-l <
>> > > >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > I was just the thinking it would be helpful to see the sAyaNa
>> > bhAShya
>> > > >> for
>> > > >> > that particular Rk mantra को अद्धा वेद क इह प्रवोचत् । कुत आजाता
>> कुत
>> > > इयं
>> > > >> > विसृष्टिः  and you posted it.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Thank you for that Praveen ji.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> (All thanks to Yoganandaji and his team. I've just copy-pasted,
>> fixing
>> > > >> just
>> > > >> a typo or two from http://rigveda.sanatana.in/)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > Then what is the Advaita teaching all about. I understand it to
>> be -
>> > > >> "the
>> > > >> > mind cannot do viShayIkaraNam (objectification or a concrete
>> > > >> > conceptualization) of jagatkAraNam and how it 'evolved' in the
>> > initial
>> > > >> > stages to "become" jagat. But it's still possible for the shuddha
>> > > >> > anatahkaraNam, when exposed to the mahAvAkya teaching to resolve
>> in
>> > to
>> > > >> it's
>> > > >> > source and own up "i am brahman" by way of laxyArtham of that
>> > > mahAvAkya.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > The mystery of creation remains but the mind's doubts about AtmA
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > >> > sources of sorrow are destroyed thereby.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Exactly so, that is why that which is created after (if at all
>> there
>> > is
>> > > a
>> > > >> created and an after), cannot ever know the former. Who knows is
>> > always
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> former; the former knows the former as there is no one else! Or
>> > sticking
>> > > >> to
>> > > >> the context, one who knows doesn't know as to why the creation! As
>> > > >> Bhagavan
>> > > >> Gaudapadacharya concludes देवस्यैष स्वभावोऽयमाप्तकामस्य का स्पृहा।
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Kind rgds,
>> > > >> --Praveen R. Bhat
>> > > >> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should
>> one
>> > > know
>> > > >> That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
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