[Advaita-l] Advaita Siddhi: request for a clarification.

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams *श्रीमल्ललितालालितः**,*

Let me first clarify that I posted my earlier response before seeing your
post. It is possible that you had posted it earlier than mine, but as is
well known by now, the posts are received by the recipients in a very
irregular manner. For example, even in this thread, I am yet to receive the
post by Raghav Ji which you have referred to. I am aware of it only through
your post.

Reg  <<  Chandamouli,
That is unrelated too.
You are saying that सत् part of knowledge is प्रमा and घट part is
ignorance(you must say illusion, instead of ignorance though).
That was not the base of contradiction >>,

Durga Ji had mentioned in his post under “A”  that

<< Whereas Brahman is capable
of being known by all sense organs. Thus even though Brahman has no form it
is capable of being known >>

Under “B”, it is stated that

<< The existence that is capable of being known through direct perception
is not contradictory to mithyAtva. (The corollary - The existence that is
contradictory to mithyAtva, is not perceptible.) >>.

From this I understood that Brahman is stated to be perceptible under A and
not perceptible under B. Hence the contradiction.

In response, instead of directly alluding to this specifically, I made a
general proposition considered relevant in Sidhanta that any perception
involves both Atman (Sat part) and anAtman (mithyA part). So in any
statement relating to perception, reference to either of them should be
understood contextually. Then there will be no contradictions. In what is
cited by Durga Ji, reference in “A” is to the “Sat” part while the
reference in “B” is to the mithyA part. Hence no contradiction. That was
the import of my post. Any other information included therein was only by
way of completion of the Sidhanta.

I will not be able to understand your post as it is in Sanskrit. My
knowledge of the same being limited, I generally take the help of
translations or commentaries in other languages for Sanskrit texts.
Pranams and Regards

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 10:02 AM श्रीमल्ललितालालितः via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Raghav,
> This is a totally different thing.
> What you presented says that AtmA is neither विदित nor अविदित and is साक्षी
> of all वृत्ति.
> While siddhiH is telling that AtmA is known through eyes, since it is
> perceivable by all instruments. The contradiction comes next, when the
> other chapter tells that the sattva which is opposed to mithyAtva can not
> be defined, etc.
> Chandamouli,
> That is unrelated too.
> You are saying that सत् part of knowledge is प्रमा and घट part is
> ignorance(you must say illusion, instead of ignorance though).
> That was not the base of contradiction.
>
> These confusions and this type of unclarity is based on not seeing the
> original chapters of siddhiH.
> I hope you see there first, then find the contradiction and then come back
> to understand my reply, if needed.
>
> I hope this is enough for this thread.
>
>
> *श्रीमल्ललितालालितः*www.lalitaalaalitah.com
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 9:51 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sri Durga Prasad ji
> >
> > The following bhAShya passage on kenopaniShad is also relevant to the
> > topic, implying that (सर्व)प्रत्ययैरेव प्रत्ययेष्वविशिष्टतया लक्ष्यते
> (the
> > Self is indicated by the cognitions themselves, in the midst of
> cognitions,
> > as non-different from them.)
> >
> > The full context is given below.
> >
> >
> > प्रतिबोधविदितं मतममृतत्वं हि विन्दते । आत्मना विन्दते वीर्यं विद्यया
> > विन्दतेऽमृतम् ॥ २.४ ॥
> > lt (i.e. Brahman) is really known when
> > It is known with (i.e. as the Self of) each state of
> > consciousness, because thereby one gets immortality. (Since) through
> one’s
> > own Self is acquired strength, (therefore) through knowledge is
> > attained immortality.
> >
> > Bhashya
> >  प्रतिबोधविदितं बोधं बोधं प्रति विदितम् । बोधशब्देन बौद्धाः प्रत्यया
> > उच्यन्ते । ।  विदिताविदिताभ्यामन्यद्ब्रह्मेत्यागमवाक्यार्थ एवं
> > Pratibodha-viditam, known with reference to each state
> > of intelligence. By the word bodha is meant the cognitions
> > acquired through the intellect.
> >
> > सर्वे प्रत्यया विषयीभवन्ति यस्य, स आत्मा सर्वबोधान्प्रतिबुध्यते
> > सर्वप्रत्ययदर्शी चिच्छक्तिस्वरूपमात्रः प्रत्ययैरेव प्रत्ययेष्वविशिष्टतया
> > लक्ष्यते ; नान्यद्द्वारमन्तरात्मनो विज्ञानाय
> > The Self, that encompasses
> > all ideas as Its objects, is known in relation to all these
> > ideas. Being the witness of all cognitions, and by nature
> > nothing but the power of consciousness, the Self is indicated by the
> > cognitions themselves, in the midst of cognitions, as non-different from
> > them. There is no other door
> > to Its awareness.
> >
> > अतः प्रत्ययप्रत्यगात्मतया विदितं ब्रह्म यदा, तदा तत् मतं
> > तत्सम्यग्दर्शनमित्यर्थः
> > Therefore when Brahman is known as the
> > innermost Self (i.e. witness) of cognitions, then is It known, that is to
> > say, then there is Its complete realisation.
> >
> > सर्वप्रत्ययदर्शित्वे चोपजननापायवर्जितदृक्स्वरूपता नित्यत्वं
> > विशुद्धस्वरूपत्वमात्मत्वं निर्विशेषतैकत्वं च सर्वभूतेषु सिद्धं भवेत् ,
> > लक्षणभेदाभावाद्व्योन्न इव घटगिरिगुहादिषु ।
> > Only by accepting Brahman as the witness of all cognitions
> > can it be established that It is by nature a witness that is not subject
> to
> > growth and decay, and is eternal, pure in
> > essence, the Self, unconditioned, and one in all beings, just as it is in
> > the case of akasa (space) because of the non-difference of its
> > characteristics despite its existence in pots,
> > caves, etc.
> >
> >
> > Om
> > Raghav
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Jul, 2020, 4:11 AM Durga Prasad Janaswamy via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hari Om,
> > > Pranams.
> > >
> > > Advaita Siddhi
> > >
> > > A.  paricCheda 1 - paricChinnatva hetUpapattih
> > >
> > > नच - रूपादिहीनतया चाक्षुषत्वाद्यनुपपत्ति: बाधिकेति - वाच्यम् ; Do not
> > argue
> > > thus - Brahman, being without form, cannot be seen with eyes and thus
> > there
> > > is a contradiction.
> > >
> > > प्रतिनियतेन्द्रियग्राह्येष्वेव रूपाद्यपेक्षानियमात्,
> > सर्वेन्द्रियग्राह्यम्
> > > तु सद्रूपं ब्रह्म, नातो रुपादिहीनत्वेऽपि चाक्षुषत्वाद्यनुपपत्ति: Every
> > > sense organ is capable of revealing only that which it is designed for
> > (for
> > > example, eyes can only reveal form, not sound). Whereas Brahman is
> > capable
> > > of being known by all sense organs. Thus even though Brahman has no
> form
> > it
> > > is capable of being known.
> > >
> > >
> > > B. paricCheda 1 - pratyaksha bAdhoddhAre sattva nirvachanam
> > > ननु 'सन् घट' इत्याद्यध्यक्षबाधितविषया दृश्यत्वादय - इति चेत्  If this
> is
> > > the argument (of the opponent) - The world's unreality established by
> > > reasons such as knowability, etc. is contradicted by direct perception
> of
> > > the kind "The pot exists".
> > >
> > > न ; चक्षुराद्यध्यक्षयोग्यमिथ्यात्वविरोधिसत्त्वानिरुक्ते: |
> > > No. The existence that is capable of being known through direct
> > perception
> > > is not contradictory to mithyAtva. (The corollary - The existence that
> is
> > > contradictory to mithyAtva, is not perceptible.)
> > >
> > > I think I am missing something here, to me (A) and (B) look
> > contradictory.
> > > Please clear my confusion.
> > >
> > > Thanks and regards
> > > -- durga prasad janaswamy
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