[Advaita-l] My notes on the vicAra sAgara 1

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Chandramouliji - PraNAms
That is OK. That makes the world more interesting. 
Hari Om!Sadananda

 

    On Sunday, 7 June, 2020, 02:41:30 pm IST, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Pranams Sadananda Ji,
Reg  << Besides we had some discussion on the parinNama and vivarta on the basis of Panchadashi's text. Gold becoming ornaments comes under vivartha while ring becoming a bangle is pariNaama. Vaacharambanam statement applies - loham iti eva satyam. There was some discussion of milk becoming curds come under pariNaama >>,
Yes. That is right. But unfortunately our respective views were diametrically opposite.
Regards

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:36 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

Chandramouliji - PraNAms
It was written many years ago. Normally I take notes in a class and expand in my own way based on the class notes. 
Hence, I mentioned it as Notes based on Swamiji's class. When I write it, I express the ideas in my  own way as I understand. Some of the slokas that were quoted may not be there in Swamiji's pravachan. 
Besides we had some discussion on the parinNama and vivarta on the basis of Panchadashi's text. Gold becoming ornaments comes under vivartha while ring becoming a bangle is pariNaama. Vaacharambanam statement applies - loham iti eva satyam. There was some discussion of milk becoming curds come under pariNaama.  
Hari Om!Sadananda
 

    On Sunday, 7 June, 2020, 12:43:46 pm IST, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:  
 
 Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,

Even if you have reference to the date on which the talk was delivered, I
think we can get reference to the talk number.

Regards

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:12 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pranams Sadananda Ji,
>
> Reg  <<  Theorder of reality of ring, bangle, bracelet, etc., must be
> different from the Goldfrom which they came, by which they are sustained
> and into which they go back >>,
>
> Do you by any chance have reference to the talk number in which Swami
> Paramarthananda Ji has made such a statement? Topic number and page number
> of Vichara sagara? To the best of my knowledge, Swami Paramarthananda Ji
> has not made such a statement. On the other hand,  in a talk devoted
> entirely to the topic of pariNAma and vivarta, he has very clearly
> explained gold-ornament as well as poy-clay as pariNAma modifications only.
> Unfortunately my earlier attempts here and elsewhere to get a reference to
> that talk did not succeed.
>
> Pranams and Regards
>
>
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> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 11:22 AM Kuntimaddi Sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> The following write-upis based on the Notes taken during Swami
>> Paramarthanandaji’s class onVicharasagara of Nischaladaasa – I used to
>> attend Swamiji’s class whenever I was in India. These notes are based on my
>> understanding. I am posting this in parts due to its length. With PraNAms
>> toSwamiji. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Aatma is adhiShTaanam orsubstratum for everything. It is the seer,
>> experiencer, but it cannot be seenor experienced.  Bri. Up statement says
>> –na dRiShTeH draShTaaram pasyeH,na shruteH shrotaaram shRiNuyaat, na manteH
>> mantaaram manveethaaH, na vijnaateHvijaataaram vijaaneeyaaH| Esha ta aatma
>> sarvantarH. III-4-2.  That whichsees but that which cannot be seen, that
>> which hears but that which cannot beheard, that which thinks but that which
>> cannot be an object of thought, thatwhich knows but that which cannot be
>> known. That is your own self, whichpervades everything as the substantive
>> of all.
>>
>> It is adhiShTaanam forthe universe – the universe is adhyaasa or
>> superimposition on the adhiShTaanamaatma that you are. It is like snake is
>> adhyaasa on rope. Snake is mithyaa. Itis like the mirage waters on the
>> dry-sand.
>>
>> The world is mithyaa. Thatis, it is only apparently existing but not
>> really existing. That which changesis only experientially real or
>> transactionally real but not really real. Henceit comes under neither real
>> nor unreal, sat asat vilakshaNam. Since it isneither sat nor asat it is
>> called mithyaa. Every mithyaa vastu or object musthave an adhiShTaanam or
>> aadharam or support for its existence. I am, as
>> pureexistence-consciousness, is the very substratum for everything and I am
>> theprojector, sustainer, and experiencer (PSE) of the whole universe. The
>> aboveBri. Up. mantras, for example, provides scriptural support.
>>
>> The world is mithyaa,and samsara, therefore, is also mithyaa. That which
>> appears and experienced isnot really real but apparently real since it is
>> ever-changing. When there issomething changing, then there must be a
>> changeless entity with a reference to whichthe changes can be noticed. Thus
>> there are two realities one changing entityand the other the changeless
>> substratum that supports the changing entity. Theorder of reality,
>> therefore, must differ between these two. For example, at therelative
>> level, Gold is the changeless substratum in all changing ornaments,such as
>> rings, bangles, etc. A ring can become a bangle, and a bangle canbecome a
>> bracelet. However, as Gold, there is no change in these changes. Theorder
>> of reality of ring, bangle, bracelet, etc., must be different from the
>> Goldfrom which they came, by which they are sustained and into which they
>> go back.Hence Gold is adhiShTaanam or substratum for all gold ornaments.
>> Gold is morereal than the rings, bangles, etc, the forms that Gold appears.
>> Names and formsof Gold are not gold as they are only appearances. The
>> functions or utilitiesof these names and forms also do not belong to Gold.
>> The gunas orattributes of a ring, bangle, etc that differentiate one form
>> from the other donot belong Gold. The same principle applies to the world
>> that involves namesand forms of all objects. These names and forms or
>> attributes or gunas whichdifferentiate one from the other do not belong to
>> the adhiShTaanam orsubstantive of these names and forms of objects of the
>> world.
>>
>> From the scriptures, welearn that the adhiShTaanam or substratum for the
>> entire universe is sat alone,which is really real as it is changeless. Any
>> finite can undergo a change sinceit is finite. Only infinite cannot undergo
>> a change. Hence sat is infinite.Infinite cannot exclude anything, therefore
>> sat is the essence of everything.Infinite cannot be perceived.  Therefore
>> sat because of which the wholeworld exits is imperceptible.
>> Elimination of mithyaais not possible. Samsaara is mithyaa, and therefore
>> its elimination is notpossible. Then the very seeking for moksha is futile
>> since it involves the eliminationof the limitations and thus samasaara.
>> Hence the elimination of samsaara ornegation of the perceptual world is not
>> possible since it is mithyaa. Seekingto eliminate samsaara is, therefore is
>> wrong and illogical. In fact this notionthat I want to eliminate all my
>> problems forms one of the biggest obstacles formoksha. Hence any pursuit to
>> eliminate the samsaara, which is mithyaa is boundto fail since one is
>> trying to eliminate that which has no reality of itsown.
>>
>>
>> The very seeking toeliminate samsaara or the world of appearance by a
>> process itself will resultin two problems.
>>
>> 1. Seeking will not besuccessful since one is trying to eliminate
>> samsaara or limitations which arenot real.
>> 2. More importantly, thevery effort to eliminate the mithyaa object or
>> vastu gives more reality to themithyaa object. By the very process to
>> eliminate that which is not real ormithyaa will only give more reality to
>> it but also makes the problem moredifficult. It is similar to trying to
>> kill the rope-snake that is perceived.Rope-snake cannot be killed by any
>> means. And the very pursuit of killing therope-snake gives more reality to
>> the snake than it deserves. Hence any pursuitto eliminate the rope-snake
>> will bound to be a failure. What needs to beunderstood is that it is really
>> rope, and there is no snake at the place andtime where the rope is.
>>
>> -----To be continued.
>> Hari Om!
>> Sadananda
>> -----------------------------
>>
>>    On Sunday, 7 June, 2020, 09:45:28 am IST, Binod Singh via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>  PraNAma,
>>
>> First of all, this group has done a wonderful job of explaining and
>> propagating Advaita Vedanta and I really appreciate the passion and
>> hardwork of all the members here. I hope for higher spiritual progression
>> for everyone.. Gurprasaad.
>>
>> I am currently living in Canada and was supposed to go to India in April
>> as
>> my family is in Delhi. But due to this Corona, I don't see travelling for
>> at least a year.
>> I was planning to get the CDs on "vicAra Sagaram" by Swami ParamArthananda
>> Saraswati ji from Sastraprakasika Trust in Chennai which runs
>> vedantavidyarthisangha.org or yogamalika.org
>>
>> Unfortunately, they only deliver and transact in India only. I was hoping
>> if someone has the MP3s and can forward it to me. I can pay the due amount
>> as well by whatever means convenient . I have been waiting for a couple of
>> years to get the pravachanam and I don't want to delay studying
>> this grantha.
>>
>> Please let me know if you need any details from me.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Binod Singh
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