[Advaita-l] A replica of Adhyasa Bhashya in the Gita Bhashya13.26

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

> Namaste Venkat ji
> Thank you.
> That clarifies the matter. Although I was aware of the
> mithyAGYAna-nimittaH passage in bhAShya, I was only highlighting the
> 'avivekena' reference for a reason.
>
> But first -
> From what you, Praveenji and Subbu ji wrote, equating
> 'vivekAbhAva-nibandhanaH' (gItA bhAShya) with 'avivekena' (adhyAsa bhAShya)
> is fine. And so the idea that these two passage from different texts are
> replicas is also tenable. That's the main thing.
>
> The issue arises if vivekAbhAva-nibandhanaH' and 'avivekena' are both
> asserted as referring to mUlAvidyA. The latter could conceivably be
> amenable to that (by taking virodhArtha nanj) but not the former, since the
> abhAva challenge comes in, in the word vivekAbhAva-nibandhanaH.
>
> I now recollect why I got interested to this matter. I was party to a
> discussion a long time back where it was challenged (in a nice way of
> course !  ) that the adhyAsa bhAShya has no direct reference to avidyA
> except for the allegedly contrived parsing of mithyAGYAna as mithyA +
> aGYAnam , rather than mithyA + GYAnam.
> This was countered by a traditional scholar saying that 'avivekena' also
> can be interpreted as (causal) avidyA being responsible for the arising of
> adhyAsa. This was not the only argument given by him. But his riposte sort
> of struck me.
>
> But in the wake of the desirable need to show harmony across adhyAsa and
> gItA  bhAShyas, it may not be tenable to hold that aviveka is causal etc.
> Instead, in  both cases, aviveka is just the temporal continuance of
> adhyAsa. It's a post-facto observation of human experience of feeling bound
> up with the body-mind, because the viveka-vRtti or vidyA-vRtti born of
> shravanAdi has not arisen.
>
>
> Om
>
> Raghav
>
> P.S. Would you say there is any other way to atleast hint that avidyA is
> not-abhAva from adhyAsa bhAShya alone? (Since the avivekena reference has
> to be dispensed with in view of maintaining concordance with gItA bhAShya
> 13.26.? I admit the constraint of adhyAsa bhAShya alone is a bit unfair!
>
>
>
> On Fri, 1 May, 2020, 1:51 PM Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Raghav ji,
>> To clarify, the phrase इतरेतराविवेकेन does not refer to avidyA, but
>> simply the lack of discrimination between self and non-self. The phrase,
>> मिथ्याज्ञाननिमित्तम् is the one that refers to bhAvarUpa avidyA being the
>> upAdAna kAraNa for the adhyastam.
>>
>> As the panchapAdikAkAra says:
>>
>> मिथ्याज्ञाननिमित्तः इति ।
>>
>> मिथ्या च तदज्ञानं च मिथ्याज्ञानम् । मिथ्येति अनिर्वचनीयता उच्यते ।
>> अज्ञानमिति च जडात्मिका अविद्याशक्तिः ज्ञानपर्युदासेन उच्यते । तन्निमित्तः
>>  तदुपादानः इत्यर्थः ॥
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 6:36 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> > Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
>>> > Thank you for your post. I am resending to the forum since I had
>>> addressed
>>> > the earlier one only to you.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I had mentioned the word hetu inadvertently in the copy of the mail sent
>>> to
>>> > you. Rest of the post reads the same.
>>> >
>>> > 1. The Adhyasa bhashya usage has the word "aviveka" in  इतरेतराविवेकेन
>>> ..
>>> > which is generally taken as indicating that there is upAdAna kAraNa
>>> viz.,
>>> > avidyA for the adhyAsa (which is the mithunIkaraNam of satyAnRte).
>>> >
>>> >  2.  The gItA bhAShya passage has the same word "aviveka" used in the
>>> > compound "aviveka-nibandhanaH...samyogaH" the word nibandhanaH can
>>> well be
>>> > understood as kAraNa. The word samyogaH here is same as adhyAsa.
>>> >
>>> > Is there anything missing in the above comparison?
>>> >
>>> > And yes the other thing as you pointed out तस्य
>>> यथोक्तसम्यग्दर्शनविरोधात् अपगच्छति
>>> >  मिथ्याज्ञानम्
>>> >
>>> > mentions samyagdarshanaM as being *virodhI* of the mithyAGYAnam so (the
>>> > aGYAnam or avidyA) is not abhAvArthe.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 30 Apr, 2020, 11:23 PM Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Namaste Raghav ji,
>>> >> I don't think this refers to vivekajnAna abhAva being a (upAdAna)
>>> kAraNa
>>> >> of the samyoga.
>>> >>
>>> >> Rather, AchArya is saying that because of the absence of
>>> discrimination...
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I was assuming that this "absence of discrimination" i.e., "aviveka" is
>>> > not only epistemic (creates cofusion between two different entities)
>>> but
>>> > also ontic (i.e., the upAdAna kAraNa for the samyogaH)
>>> >
>>> > I am doing this because the same word "aviveka" in adhyAsa bhAShya is
>>> > taken to indicate the upAdAna kArAnam sense, based on the overall
>>> strong
>>> > similarity between the two bhAshya passages
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for the inputs.
>>> >
>>> > Om
>>> > Raghav
>>> >
>>> > between what is the self (or rope) and what is the non-self (or snake),
>>> >> one ends up with the samyoga of the two, meaning the mixing up of the
>>> self
>>> >> for the bon self and vice-versa.
>>> >>
>>> >> If that viveka was there, the ajnAna would not survive its presence,
>>> therefore
>>> >> in the absence of the viveka, ajnAna is present, and consequently
>>> gives
>>> >> rise to the adhyAsa.
>>> >>
>>> >> One clearly cannot say jnAnAbhAva gave rise to the adhyAsa, because
>>> >> katham asata: sajjAyeta? (As AchArya says here
>>> >> itself तस्य यथोक्तसम्यग्दर्शनविरोधात् अपगच्छति मिथ्याज्ञानम् - how
>>> will an
>>> >> absence go? Ergo it cannot be an absence).
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Venkatraghavan
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 18:11 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
>>> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> A follow up sentence I missed - the word "causative" is better
>>> written as
>>> >>> 'causal' indicating its latency and absence of direct observability.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Again, any corrections are welcome.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, 30 Apr, 2020, 9:59 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
>>> >>> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > Namaste Praveen ji
>>> >>> > A doubt here -
>>> >>> > 1. You wrote - I think the Panchami just means hetu here.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 2. I’d be a little careful using it as a causative for adhyAsa as
>>> it
>>> >>> might
>>> >>> > accrue the same flaw ajnAna being abhAvarUpa! 😊
>>> >>> > (I am intrigued...!)
>>> >>> > 3. And then concluded with nibandhanam = kAraNam
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Are not the ideas of "hetu", "causative factor" and "kAraNam"
>>> >>> > interchangeable , or am I missing something here?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I think if you could elaborate point 2, it should clarify the
>>> entire
>>> >>> > matter.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Also to check if the following ways of putting it are correct,
>>> please
>>> >>> let
>>> >>> > me know.
>>> >>> > 1. adhyAsa is caused by avidyA
>>> >>> > 2. avidyA is the hetu for the occurrence of adhyAsa.
>>> >>> > 3. avidyA is the kAraNam for adhyAsa.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Om
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Raghav
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Thu, 30 Apr, 2020, 9:41 PM Praveen R. Bhat via Advaita-l, <
>>> >>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> Namaste Raghav ji,
>>> >>> >> (Thanks Subbuji for the OP)
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> From: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Can we counter the objection (by just looking at this reference)
>>> that
>>> >>> >> aGYAna is GYAnAbhAva? Since the abhAva reference is there in this
>>> gItA
>>> >>> >> passage -  "तद्विवेकज्ञानाभावात्
>>> >>> >> अध्यारोपितसर्परजतादिसंयोग..." .
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Would it be logical to say that the Panchami prayoga in
>>> >>> >> vivekaGYAna-abhAvAt
>>> >>> >> itself implies a causative factor for adhyAsa?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> >>> I think the Panchami just means hetu here. I’d be a little
>>> careful
>>> >>> >> using it as a causative for adhyAsa as it might accrue the same
>>> flaw
>>> >>> ajnAna
>>> >>> >> being abhAvarUpa! 😊
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Also in  विषयविषयिणोः भिन्नस्वभावयोः इतरेतरतद्धर्माध्यासलक्षणः
>>> संयोगः
>>> >>> >> क्षेत्र
>>> >>> >> क्षेत्रज्ञस्वरूपविवेकाभावनिबन्धनः, a point to consider is whether
>>> the
>>> >>> word
>>> >>> >> nibandhaH can be taken as the "seat" or "basis" or "origin" -
>>> again
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> these have the causative sense. (...the other meaning of
>>> nibandhanaH
>>> >>> as
>>> >>> >> "fastening" or "tying together" is also there of course). So we
>>> could
>>> >>> say
>>> >>> >> अध्यासलक्षणः संयोगः विवेकाभावनिबन्धनः  (विवेकाभावः यस्य निबन्धनः
>>> सः
>>> >>> >> विवेकाभावनिबन्धनः).
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> >>> क्षेत्रस्वरूप-क्षेत्रज्ञस्वरूपयोः विवेकस्य अभावः निबन्धनं =
>>> कारणं
>>> >>> >> यस्य संयोगस्य सः संयोगः क्षेत्रक्षेत्रज्ञस्वरूपविवेकाभावनिबन्धनः।
>>> I
>>> >>> urge
>>> >>> >> those interested to read Bhagavan Anandagiri’s TIkA on it ending
>>> >>> nicely
>>> >>> >> with सम्यग्ज्ञानात् अज्ञानतत्कार्यनिवृत्त्या मुक्तिः, इति स्थिते,
>>> >>> फलितमाह-
>>> >>> >> य एवमिति
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Kind rgds,
>>> >>> >> --Praveen R. Bhat
>>> >>> >> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should
>>> one
>>> >>> know
>>> >>> >> That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
>>> >>> >>
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