[Advaita-l] 'Sarva-shunya' is impossible!

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Chandramouliji PraNAms

After reading through what you wrote,I feel that what you mentioned is not different from what I wrote. I might nothave used the same language in relation to the mind in the deep sleepstate. 

 Laya does involve the dissolution ofvritti jnaanam that involves subject-object duality or triad. I called the mindin the deep-sleep state as it is in a subtler state, perhaps somewhat close tomodern psychologists’ term subconscious mind. The mind is folded onlymeans there is no more vRitti jnaanam.

 The experience during fullanesthesia or coma happens when the mind goes ever subtler state. I had thatexperience recently and in contrast to the sleep experience where the mindfeels relaxed after that, in a coma even that experience for recollection is notthere. These are observations or anubhava.

 In the deep sleep state, the mindresolves into the kaarna shareera or causal state only implies that the mind isthere with a complete absence of all vRitti jnanam or subject-object duality.This is in contrast to the state of the mind of a jeevan mukta. Happiness isexperienced not only during deep sleep but also during waking stage when intensedesire is fulfilled. In those moments there are no duality or subject-objectvritti jnaanam. Scriptures say even a spec of duality causes fear.

 The fact that jeeva is alive impliesthat there is mind and chidaabhaasa are there– in the language of Swami Paramarthandajiwe have saakshii (OC), we have reflecting medium RM and chidabhaasa (RC).

 Jeevan mukta is one who understood usinghis mind that mind with vritti jnaanam or subject-object duality is not the reality.He is pure saaskhee that enlivens (chidaabhaasa) the mind and body via the mind.

 When Jeevan mukta leaves the body, thebody merges with virat, the mind with Hiranya garbha and the intellect with Iswara– the macro entities discussed in Manduka. When Jeevan mukta ‘as though’ mergeswith the totality, which was indicated before as saakshee. 

 On the other hand, for the one whohas not realized the subtle body with pranaas, etc., leaves the gross body insearch of a new gross body. During that transmigration also the mind is therein a subtler form seeking a loka.

 This is also what I understood fromthe 11th Ch of Panchadashi and had written series of articles on ‘whoslept very well’ and posted a couple of years ago.

 I see self-consistency in all these.

 This is also what Shree Subbuji wasalso implying, as I understood.

 One can describe this in a differentlanguage, but the essence is the same.
 Hari Om!Sadananda
------------------ 
On Monday, 25 May, 2020, 04:06:51 pm IST, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
 
 
 Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,

That is not my understanding. Mind (and chidAbhAsa) is resolved (laya) in
sushupti into its kAraNa namely avidyA. What is present is avidyA. Mind is
not present in subtle form, it is resolved into its causal (kAraNa) form.
The experiences you have mentioned are attributed to the revelation by
sAkshi of the three avidyA vrittIs (not antahkaraNa vrittIs or mental
vrittIs). Recollection on wakingup is certainly experiential and not
inferential.I am copying below relevant parts from Sidhanta Bindu of Sri
Madhusudana Saraswati

<< एवं जाग्रत्स्वप्नभोगद्वयेन श्रान्तस्य जीवस्य तदुभयकारणकर्मक्षये
ज्ञानशक्त्यवच्छिन्नस्य सवासनस्यान्तःकरणस्य कारणात्मनावस्थाने सति
विश्रामस्थानं सुषुप्त्यवस्था ।  >>
<<  evaM jAgratsvapnabhogadvayena shrAntasya jIvasya
tadubhayakAraNakarmakShaye j~nAnashaktyavachChinnasya
savAsanasyAntaHkaraNasya kAraNAtmanAvasthAne sati vishrAmasthAnaM
suShuptyavasthA | >>

Translation  (All translations by Sri PC Divan Ji)  << In the same manner,
the resting-place of the individual soul tired by the enjoyment made in the
states of waking and dreaming and having (his) inner organ together with
(his) latent desires as limited by the power of cognition, resting in the
state of the (original) cause, is the state of deep sleep >>.

<<  न किञ्चिदवेदिषमिति कारणमात्रोपलम्भः सुषुप्तिः । तत्र
जाग्रत्स्वप्नभोग्यपदार्थज्ञानाभावेपि साक्ष्याकारं, सुखाकारं, अवस्थाऽज्ञानाकारं
चाविद्यायाः वृत्तित्रयमभ्युपेयते । >>

<<  na ki~nchidavediShamiti kAraNamAtropalambhaH suShuptiH | tatra
jAgratsvapnabhogyapadArthaj~nAnAbhAvepi sAkShyAkAraM, sukhAkAraM,
avasthA.aj~nAnAkAraM chAvidyAyAH vRRittitrayamabhyupeyate | >>
Translation  <<  Sushupti is the cognition of the cause only in the form “I
did not know anything”. It is believed that even though there is the
absence in that state of the knowledge the substances capable of being
enjoyed in the states of waking and dreaming, there is a triad of Vrittis
of avidyA which assumes the form of (one’s being) a witness, of (one’s)
being happy, and of being a state of ignorance. And owing to the absence of
egotism there is not one specific Vritti for in that case there would not
be the state of deep sleep >>.

In the absence of the अहङ्कार (aha~NkAra) naturally a question arises how
is it then that a man feels on rising that he was sleeping. The answer to
that is supplied by the following.

<< मुखप्रतिबिम्बाश्रये दर्पणे जपाकुसुमलौहित्याध्यासे रक्तं मुखमिति
प्रतीतिवदहङ्काराश्रयसाक्षिचैतन्यस्य स्मरणाश्रयत्वात् अहमस्वाप्समिति
सामानाधिकरण्यप्रतीतिः, न पुनरहं सुखीति वाश्रयतया । >>

<<  mukhapratibimbAshraye darpaNe japAkusumalauhityAdhyAse raktaM mukhamiti
pratItivadaha~NkArAshrayasAkShichaitanyasya smaraNAshrayatvAt
ahamasvApsamiti sAmAnAdhikaraNyapratItiH, na punarahaM sukhIti vAshrayatayA
| >>

Translation  by Sri PC Divan Ji  <<  The cognizance of the Self in the role
of the witness which is dependent upon egotism (for manifestation) takes
place by a case in apposition in the form “I was sleeping” owing to its
being the substratum of recollection, like the cognizance “the face is red”
which takes place on the superimposition of the redness of the china rose
on the mirror which is the substratum of the reflection of the face, and
not as being dependent (upon something else) as (in the feeling) “I am
happy” >>.
Meaning of the above in simpler language  ( By Sri PC Divan Ji)  <<  The
feeling that arises namely, ‘I was sleeping’ is similar to the feeling ‘My
face is red’ which arises on seeing one’s reflection side by side with the
redness of a china rose in a mirror, not to the feeling ‘I am happy’. The
difference is that while in the former the अहङ्कार (aha~NkAra) was not
present at the same time as the state of sleeping, in the latter it is
present at the same time as the enjoyment of happiness  >>.

It would be useful to refer to Panchadashi  Ch 11 verses 64-74which
explains sushupti and Anandamaya kOsha.

Regards



<<

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 1:30 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Chandramouliji - PraNAms
>
> Even in Sushupti, mind, and chidaabhaasa are there but in the subtler
> state. There are experiences of a) absence of subject-object duality, b)
> awareness of kaarana shareera or ananda maya kosha resulting a) I slept
> very well, b) I did not know anything (absence of subject-object duality)
> and c) I was happy due to b). Thus the mind could recollect once it is
> awake. There has been extensive discussion in Advaitic literature that it
> is an experiential statement and not inferential statement. Saakshee is not
> an experiencer either.
>
> In other words, the mind is functioning at very low level with
> chidaabhaasa maintaining the sustaining life.
>
> This is my understanding.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, 25 May, 2020, 11:20:14 am IST, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,
>
> I was referring to the revealing of the absence of mind **(refutation of
> mind and intellect)**  in sushupti by Chaitanya as sAkshi. Such revelation
> (refutation) is not through mind and intellect because it is absent.
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
> kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Chandramouliji - PraNAms
>
> See discussion with Subbuji.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 24 May, 2020, 03:03:07 pm IST, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
> Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,
>
> Reg  << Yes - but that refutation of mind and intellect is done by the mind
> only! >>,
>
> Not exactly. It is recollection of the samskAra of its refutation later by
> the mind and intellect.
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 1:56 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Subbuji PraNAms
> > The external principle as Saakshee is recognized only by Advaitins.
> > ------------So, no one can refute or deny the ephemeral mind and the
> > intellect, and the
> > world that is perceived and grasped by such intellect, without admitting
> > the eternal Atman. Why? Because, the mind and the intellect can be
> refuted
> > only through an alternative principle that is different from the mind and
> > intellect.
> > ---------
> > Yes - but that refutation of mind and intellect is done by the mind only!
> > Just could not resist!
> > Hari Om!
> > Sadananda
>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org