[Advaita-l] Isn't Bhakthi, Dyana & Karma sufficient for attaining Moksha ?

[Mahadevan Iyer]

Pranams,

Thank you very much for your reply Raghav ji.

But, I wanted to know, What makes GYAnam more significant than other 
approaches like Dhyanam, Bhakthi etc ?

Traditional Advaitic notion is that Bhakthi, Dhyanam etc.. just give the 
experience of being in the state of Advaita. This experience depends 
upon the act of doing it. Hence such approaches cannot give Moksha.

But as GYAnam is self-evident. First, it removes the ignorance, then it 
removes itself, leaving only the Truth.

The self knowledge acts on the false knowledge which is in the MIND of 
the JIVA is it not ?

❓ My doubt is that, GYAnam can remove the ignorance only when one is 
(appears to be) in the state of duality. When one reached the pinnacle 
of Bhakthi, Dyanam etc, there is no such duality as the mind does not 
indulge in any kind of discrimination. We may call it "spiritual 
experience" or "meditative state". The purpose of GYAnam is to remove 
the veil of Ignorance. But in such a state GYAnam cannot remove the veil 
of ignorance because the person don't have any false knowledge in the 
first place.

Now, suppose a person is so refined that he can indulge in such a 
Bhakthi, Dyanam etc... for every moment rest of his life, and die a 
natural death depleting all his karmas.

Doesn't he get Videha Mukthi ?

In such cases can't a seeker attain Moksha even without indulging in 
self-knowledge ?

Doesn't this contradict Adi Shankaracharya's notion that only 
self-knowledge can give Moksha ?

-Hari Om Tat Sat

Mahadevan Iyer

 > You used the word "state of nonduality". All our Advaita Acharya's 
teach
 > that, without the support of Advaita teaching from a Guru,  such 
'states of
 > nonduality' engendered by bhakti, dhyanam etc are an indication of a 
high
 > degree of sattva guNa. They are a worthy accomplishment. But they are 
not
 > GYAnam by any stretch. Advaita-GYAnam is not a state.
 >
 > (To give an analogy, "heightened bhakti, dhyanam" etc are like a 
'large
 > number', while advaita GYAnam is like 'infinity'. It is not within the
 > realm of high and low numbers.)

 > Advaita GYAnam when mature is not negated or displaced by thoughts.
 > Whereas, the subtle thought-free "states" are temporary and negated by 
the
 > arising of thoughts, no matter how deep the prior meditation is.

 > The state you speak of is again a remarkable achievement. But, it can 
only
 > clarify the tvam-padArtha i.e.,  that "I am not the mind". But that is 
not
 > the ending of duality, as pointed out by Sri Shankara in his critique 
of
 > pAtanjala-yoga.

 > Again, AdvaitaGYAnam is not a state - it is a recognition of what 
already
 > IS. Like accomplishing a head on one's shoulders.

 > In cases of a few accomplished bhaktas and yogis, a little stray 
(ApAtata)
 > knowledge that 'i am Brahman' heard or studied with shraddhA, is 
always
 > present due to the cultural milieu they are living in or inferred to 
have
 > been from a prior life. In such rare cases, GYAnam can indeed arise. 
But
 > the clear  upadesha/teaching of "you are Brahman" is atleast minimally
 > necessary even for such highly accomplished sattvika sAdhakas ; it is
 > accepted in such cases that elaborate study of all the bhAShyas, tIkas 
etc.
 > is not necessary.

 > As a respected acharya said explaining kaTha, no one 'stumbles upon'
 > brahma-GYAnam; one has to choose to know, and only then knowledge may 
arise
 > with a Guru's help - however minimal it may be.

 > Om
 > Raghav