[Advaita-l] अनिर्वचनीया ख्याति anirvacaniiyaa khyaati post-Shankara origin?

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Subbu ji
Thank you for the response.
You quoted

? शृणु यथा नोच्यते —  सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्यात्मभूते इवाविद्याकल्पिते नामरूपे
> तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीये संसारप्रपञ्चबीजभूते सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्य
> मायाशक्तिः प्रकृतिरिति च श्रुतिस्मृत्योरभिलप्येते

I understand you to be saying that the use of the idea of anirvacanIyatvam
of the relation between effects and causes i.e., karya (nAmarUpa) and
kAraNam (being tattva-anyatvAbhyAm anirvacanIyam) is the same as the
anirvacanIyatvam  involved in bhrama or perceptual errors like mirage water
and its "relation" with its adhiShThAnam viz.,. sand.

(Btw We note that the nAmarUpa called pot has tAdAtmya sambandha with clay)

In other words, the anirvacanIyatvam  involved in  tattva-anyatvAbhyAm and
sadasadbhyAm is not different. Correct?

Om
Raghav





>



On Sat, 23 Jan, 2021, 6:42 pm Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Thank you very much for this Subbuji. The explanation by Srimad Anandagiri
> AchArya of iva in ivAvidyAkalpite in the quoted passage is beautiful -
> नामरूपयोरात्मभूतत्वे वस्तुत्वशङ्कायामिवेत्युक्तमुपमार्थत्वमिवकारस्य
> वारयन्नाभासार्थत्वं स्फुटयति - अविद्येति ।
>
> That is, upon the rise of the doubt that names and forms, if they are part
> of the self, end up being real, the word 'iva' is used.
>
> To clarify that the 'iva' is not used in a comparative sense
> (upamArthatvena, ie X is like Y), bhagavatpAda uses the phrase
> ivAvidyAkalpite, and by having avidyAkalpita in juxtaposition with
> iva-kAra, he intends to convey AbhAsArthatvam, ie that names and forms are
> only appearances.
>
> Kind regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2021, 10:31 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Anandagiri in his Nyayanirnaya commentary to the Brahma sutra bhashyam
> > 2.1.14 passage -  कथं नोच्यते, अत्यन्तमात्मन एकत्वमद्वितीयत्वं च ब्रुवता
> > ? शृणु यथा नोच्यते —  सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्यात्मभूते इवाविद्याकल्पिते नामरूपे
> > तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीये संसारप्रपञ्चबीजभूते सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्य
> > मायाशक्तिः प्रकृतिरिति च श्रुतिस्मृत्योरभिलप्येते ; ताभ्यामन्यः सर्वज्ञ
> > ईश्वरः, ‘ आकाशो वै नाम नामरूपयोर्निर्वहिता ते यदन्तरा तद्ब्रह्म’ (छा. उ.
> > ८ । १४ । १)
> > <
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Chandogya?page=8&id=Ch_C08_S14_V01&hl=%20%E0%A4%86%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%88%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87%20%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE>
> इति
> > श्रुतेः, ‘ नामरूपे व्याकरवाणि’ (छा. उ. ६ । ३ । २)
> > <
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Chandogya?page=6&id=Ch_C06_S03_V02&hl=%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%87%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%BF>
> ‘
> > सर्वाणि रूपाणि विचित्य धीरो नामानि कृत्वाभिवदन्यदास्ते’ (तै. आ. ३ । १२ ।
> ७) ‘
> > एकं बीजं बहुधा यः करोति’ (श्वे. उ. ६ । १२)
> > <
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/svt?page=6&id=SV_C06_V12&hl=%20%E0%A4%8F%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%83%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF>
> इत्यादिश्रुतिभ्यश्च
> > ;
> >
> > Anandagiri says:
> >
> > नामरूपयोरात्मभूतत्वे वस्तुत्वशङ्कायामिवेत्युक्तमुपमार्थत्वमिवकारस्य
> > वारयन्नाभासार्थत्वं स्फुटयति -
> >
> > अविद्येति ।
> >
> > तयोरविद्याकल्पितत्वं साधयति -
> >
> > तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामिति ।
> >
> >
> > न हीश्वरत्वेन ते निरुच्येते, जडाजडयोरभेदायोगात् । नापि ततोऽन्यत्वेन
> > निरुक्तिमर्हतः, स्वातन्त्र्येण सत्तास्फूर्त्यसम्भवात् । नहि जडमजडानपेक्षं
> > सत्तास्फूर्तिमदुपलक्ष्यते, जडत्वभङ्गप्रसङ्गात् । तस्मादविद्यात्मके
> नामरूपे
> > इत्यर्थः ।
> >
> >
> > The clarification of Anandagiri is: The duo nAma and rUpa, are avidya
> > kalpita. Why? They cannot be one with Ishwara (Brahman, Satyam) since the
> > duo being jaDa cannot be one with Brahman, ajaDa. Nor can the duo be
> > distinct/different (from Brahman) since they can't have
> > sattaa-sphuraNa independent of Brahman, Chaitanyam. Therefore the duo is
> > avidyAtmaka.
> >
> >
> > From the above we conclude that the Bhashyam passage using avidyakalpita
> > for nAma rUpa is anivachaniya as they can neither be stated as sat nor
> > asat.  This is the essence of anirvachaniya khyati in the bhrama sthala
> > where the adhyasta vastu is neither sat nor asat.
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> > subbu
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 1:57 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste,
> >>
> >> In the ArambhaNAdhikaraNam, BhagavatpAda in comparing the world to a
> >> mirage
> >> water talks of its nature, says:
> >> तस्माद्यथा घटकरकाद्याकाशानां महाकाशादनन्यत्वम् , यथा च
> >> मृगतृष्णिकोदकादीनामूषरादिभ्योऽनन्यत्वम् , *दृष्टनष्टस्वरूपत्वात्
> >> स्वरूपेणानुपाख्यत्वात्* ; एवमस्य भोग्यभोक्त्रादिप्रपञ्चजातस्य
> >> ब्रह्मव्यतिरेकेणाभाव इति द्रष्टव्यम् ॥
> >> The phrase दृष्टनष्टस्वरूपत्वात् स्वरूपेणानुपाख्यत्वात् is the
> equivalent
> >> to anirvachanIyatva.
> >>
> >> Elsewhere, in this adhikaraNam and other places he also uses the phrase
> >> तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीय:
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Venkatraghavan
> >>
> >> On Sat, 23 Jan 2021, 04:52 Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l, <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Namaste
> >> >
> >> > There is a Sloka I forget. It says for a dull minded person the world
> is
> >> > real - Sat and for a Jnani it is Asat. For a inquiring person it is
> >> > Anirvachaniya.
> >> >
> >> > Adi Sankara has explained Adhyasa and from this Adhyasa the
> >> Anirvachaniya
> >> > Khyati is deduced logically.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:52 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Namaste
> >> > > In Advaita vedanta, the model to explain erroneous perceptions (such
> >> as
> >> > > seeing a snake instead of the actual rope) is that  of अनिर्वचनीया
> >> > > ख्यातिवाद (anirvacaniiyaa khyaati-vaada). This is used to explain
> that
> >> > > erroneous perceptions are neither categorically real nor
> categorically
> >> > > unreal.
> >> > >
> >> > > "If its real, then it would never get negated/sublated; if it is
> >> unreal
> >> > > then it would never be experienced at all.(सच्चेत् न बाध्येत ; असत्
> >> चेत्
> >> > न
> >> > > प्रतीयेत)". Therefore the erroneous perception is labelled
> >> anirvacaniiyaa
> >> > > khyaati. This is the idea.
> >> > >
> >> > > Is this idea of anirvacaniiyaa khyaati presented in Shankara
> Bhashya?
> >> Or
> >> > > was it of later origin? Also, do some advaitins hold that this
> >> > > anirvacaniiyaa khyaati-vaada was of later post-Shankara origin?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thank you in advance for any light on this matter.
> >> > >
> >> > > Om
> >> > >
> >> > > Raghav
> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > -Venkatesh
> >> > _______________________________________________
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