[Advaita-l] Omniscient Lord and free will.

[Kaushik Chevendra]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021, 20:19 Vishesh Bhat, <visheshlives at gmail.com> wrote:

> DhanyavAda to everyone for the answer.
>
> I have just one follow up question. Please pardon my persistence.
> Parikshita in the Mahabharata is cursed and fated to die from the bite of
> Takshaka which he could not escape. But why is it then in certain cases,
> there are rituals prescribed and done to escape untimely death? This is
> just an example. Why is it in certain cases that Karma phala seems
> inescapable but there are also instances when the same Karma phala is
> thwarted by means of rituals or Japa.
>
The karma which hasn't taken fruit yet might be expiated. But the prarabdha
cannot be altered without it's experience. The common example is that of an
arrow which has already been released.

> This applies to punyA too. If I had some punyA phala from my past lives,
> am I destined to receive it even if I sit idle or is there an action
> necessary on my part to receive it?
>
Puny phala also creates vasanas which comepl u to do the actionn wether you
want to do or not.

>
> Even when trying to understand Gita, this question arises in my mind
> whether Krishna's call to Arjuna to act was because it was destined to be
> thus?
>
No. Because it's his duty. That is what krishna says in gita. Actions have
to be done(nitya karmas) but the fruits have to be renounced. And arjuna
followed his kshatriya dharma.

> Would the war and the deaths of the people involved have happened even if
> Arjuna had not fought the war??
>
Such a question doesn't arise. The karma phala was experienced by both,
arjuna and people involved in the war. Dharma won and adharma lost. If
arjuna wouldn't fight it would be adharma for him, which he ll reap. And
the other would experience it another way. The law of karma is always
intact.

> Were Krishna's teachings to make Arjuna realise that his temporary
> vairAgya was a result of mohA and therefore would only cause him more
> distress later even if he gave up arms and dutiful actions?Did Arjuna
> actually have free will here?
>
I didn't understand? Krishnas teaching was to inculcate vairagya bhava to
the fruit of actions. Arjuna did have free will. He can choose to follow
the supreme Lord narayanas words or otherwise.

I think you haven't understood what vairagi means. Vairagi doesn't renounce
the actions itself but it's fruit alone.
Shri madusudhana saraswati has given the explanation in his commentary on
bagavd gita.
The verse 18.66 will help you understand.


> Parts of this question are ambiguous and probably disconnected. Bu I hope
> I have been able to convey the root of my doubts.
>
> Humble pranams,
> Vishesh
>
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 at 19:33, Kaushik Chevendra <
> chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> An excellent answer sir. Thank you.
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021, 15:09 Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste,
>>>
>>> To clarify, what is being said is that sarvajnatva merely refers to
>>> Ishvara
>>> being a witness. He does not determine every outcome, which would mean
>>> that
>>> there is no such thing as free will.
>>>
>>> But saying that in itself, does not preclude Ishvara protecting /
>>> blessing
>>> devotees who have performed their karma-s / worshipped him with
>>> sincerity.
>>> That blessing / protection is not simply a matter of Ishvara's whim.
>>>
>>> It is a result of the devotees' karma / upAsana/ bhakti, all of which
>>> have
>>> been undertaken by the exercise of their free will -  and is a blessing
>>> that Ishvara bestows, in his role as the karma phaladAtA.
>>>
>>> I believe this was alluded to by Raghav ji in his earlier email in this
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Re, jyotiSha, it is not simply a shastra that says this is what is
>>> foretold
>>> - you have no choice but to accept it.
>>>
>>> Rather, the purpose of jyotiSha is to reveal what is likely to happen as
>>> a
>>> result of the fructification of past karma-s. Because these are the
>>> results
>>> of past karma-s, the exercise of free will to perform karma-s in the
>>> present, can mitigate the results of karma-s in the past.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021, 08:59 Vishesh Bhat, <visheshlives at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Namaste,
>>> >
>>> > I apologise if it looks like I am hijacking this thread to clear my own
>>> > confusion. I will make a separate thread otherwise. But  had to ask. If
>>> > IshwarA is merely "the witness", then what is the purpose of Bhakti to
>>> > "Saguna Brahman"? There are also numerous stories in the Ramayana and
>>> > Mahabharata which talk of "karma" being dissolved due to the grace of
>>> > "IshvarA". How does one interpret these in the light of advaita??
>>> Finally,
>>> > how does one understand Jyotishya which talks of karma phala being
>>> > distributed in a given life and also methods to get rid of undesired
>>> karma
>>> > phala by means of japa and homa?
>>> >
>>> > With humble pranams,
>>> > Vishesh Bhat.
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 at 12:39, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Namaste Subbuji,
>>> >>
>>> >> Your post reminded me of an old verse from the chitsukhI - there it is
>>> >> said
>>> >> omniscience is of two types - svarUpatah sarvajnatva and pramANatah.
>>> >>
>>> >> स्वरूपतः प्रमाणैव सर्वज्ञत्वं द्विधा स्थितम् ।
>>> >> तच्चोभयं विनाऽविद्यासंबन्धं नैव सिध्यति ॥
>>> >>
>>> >> The former refers to jnapti, which is the sarvAvabhAsaka kshamatvam
>>> that
>>> >> you refer to. The latter sarvajnatva is of the nature of knowing
>>> >> everything
>>> >> that I think Kaushik ji is referring to.
>>> >>
>>> >> Both, says chitsukhAchArya, are because of consciousness's association
>>> >> with
>>> >> ignorance.
>>> >>
>>> >> Reminds one of the bhAShyakAra's words from the ArambhaNAdhikaraNam -
>>> >>
>>> >> तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं सर्वज्ञत्वं
>>> >> सर्वशक्तित्वं च, न परमार्थतो विद्यया अपास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूपे आत्मनि
>>> >> ईशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार उपपद्यते ;
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Venkatraghavan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, 23:39 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > This is very nice Venkat ji. Advaitins have defined 'sarvajnatvam'
>>> as
>>> >> > 'sarva-avabhAsana-kshamatvam' which means 'capacity/ability to
>>> >> illuminate
>>> >> > everything'.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > regards
>>> >> > subbu
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Thu, 15 Jul 2021, 1:26 am Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
>>> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Namaste,
>>> >> >> Ishvara knows everything in all periods of time not because it is
>>> >> >> predestined or people lack free will, rather He directly perceives
>>> the
>>> >> >> past, present and future continuously.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Me seeing someone's actions in the present does not mean that I
>>> have
>>> >> >> influence over their actions or they lack free will in acting the
>>> way
>>> >> they
>>> >> >> do. I am merely a witness to their actions.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The same principle applies for Ishvara's omniscience and individual
>>> >> free
>>> >> >> will in all time and space.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Regards,
>>> >> >> Venkatraghavan
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, 20:29 Kaushik Chevendra via Advaita-l, <
>>> >> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > Namaste.
>>> >> >> > If isvara is omniscient then he knows every action committed by
>>> >> >> everyone.
>>> >> >> > Then if he knows what will happen, then where is the free will as
>>> >> it's
>>> >> >> > already predestined.
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