[Advaita-l] dream

[Kaushik Chevendra]

Thank you for the answers respected elders.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 11:23 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> In the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is this passage:  4.3.15 (as part of a long
> mantra):
>
> The essence is:  The dreamer only 'sees' (and does not 'do') good and bad
> in dreams and thus is not attached by the effects of the good and bad
> there.  Nor is he a doer of the acts in dream for he is not connected to
> the body-mind complex as he would in the waking.
>
>
> स वा एष एतस्मिन्सम्प्रसादे रत्वा चरित्वा दृष्ट्वैव पुण्यं च पापं च ।
>
> Bhashya select passages:  दृष्ट्वैव न कृत्वेत्यर्थः, पुण्यं च पुण्यफलम् ,
> पापं च पापफलम् ; न तु पुण्यपापयोः साक्षाद्दर्शनमस्तीत्यवोचाम ; तस्मात् न
> पुण्यपापाभ्यामनुबद्धः ; यो हि करोति पुण्यपापे, स ताभ्यामनुबध्यते ; न हि
> दर्शनमात्रेण तदनुबद्धः स्यात् ।    .....
>
>  ननु स्वप्ने न करोति पुण्यपापे तयोः फलमेव पश्यतीति कथमवगम्यते ? यथा जागरिते
> तथा करोत्येव स्वप्नेऽपि, तुल्यत्वाद्दर्शनस्य — इत्यत आह — सः आत्मा, यत्
> किञ्चित् तत्र स्वप्ने पश्यति पुण्यपापफलम् , अनन्वागतः अननुबद्धः तेन दृष्टेन
> भवति, नैव अनुबद्धो भवति ; यदि हि स्वप्ने कृतमेव तेन स्यात् , तेन अनुबध्येत
> ; स्वप्नादुत्थितोऽपि समन्वागतः स्यात् ; न च तत् लोके — स्वप्नकृतकर्मणा
> अन्वागतत्वप्रसिद्धिः ; न हि स्वप्नकृतेन आगसा आगस्कारिणमात्मानं मन्यते
> कश्चित् ; न च स्वप्नदृश आगः श्रुत्वा लोकः तं गर्हति परिहरति वा ; अतः
> अनन्वागत एव तेन भवति ; तस्मात् स्वप्ने कुर्वन्निव उपलभ्यते, न तु क्रिया
> अस्ति परमार्थतः ; ‘उतेव स्त्रीभिः सह मोदमानः’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ३ । १३)
> <
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=4&id=BR_C04_S03_V13&hl=%E0%A4%89%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B5%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%83%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%B9%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%83
> >
> इति
> श्लोक उक्तः ; आख्यातारश्च स्वप्नस्य सह इव - शब्देन आचक्षते — हस्तिनोऽद्य
> घटीकृताः धावन्तीव मया दृष्टा इति । अतो न तस्य कर्तृत्वमिति । कथं
> पुनरस्याकर्तृत्वमिति — कार्यकरणैर्मूर्तैः संश्लेषः मूर्तस्य, स तु
> क्रियाहेतुर्दृष्टः ; न ह्यमूर्तः कश्चित् क्रियावान् दृश्यते ; अमूर्तश्च
> आत्मा, अतोऽसङ्गः ; यस्माच्च असङ्गोऽयं पुरुषः, तस्मात् अनन्वागतः तेन
> स्वप्नदृष्टेन ; अत एव न क्रियाकर्तृत्वमस्य कथञ्चिदुपपद्यते ;
> कार्यकरणसंश्लेषेण हि कर्तृत्वं स्यात् ; स च संश्लेषः सङ्गः अस्य नास्ति, यतः
> असङ्गो ह्ययं पुरुषः ; तस्मात् अमृतः । एवमेव एतत् याज्ञवल्क्य ; सोऽहं भगवते
> सहस्रं ददामि ; अत ऊर्ध्वं विमोक्षायैव ब्रूहि ; मोक्षपदार्थैकदेशस्य
> कर्मप्रविवेकस्य सम्यग्दर्शितत्वात् ; अत ऊर्ध्वं विमोक्षायैव ब्रूहीति ॥
>
> Swami Madhavananda's translation:
>
> Mantra:  15. After enjoying himself and roaming, and
> merely seeing (the results of) good and evil (in
> dreams), he (stays) in a state of profound sleep,
> and comes back in the inverse order to his former
> condition, the dream state. He is untouched by
> whatever he sees in that state, for this infinite
> being is unattached. 'It is just so, Yajiiavalkya.
> I give you a thousand (cows), sir.
> Please iftstruct me further about liberation
> itself.'
>
> Bhashya:
>
> i.e. experiencing
> the fatigue due to it, and merely seeing, not
> doing, good and evil, i.e. their results (pleasure and
> pain). We have already said (p. 633) that good and
> evil cannot be directly visualised. Hence he is not
> fettered by them. Only one who does good and evil
> is so fettered ; one certainly cannot come under their
> binding influence by merely seeing them. Therefore,
> being identified with dreams, the self transcends death
> also, not merely its forms. Hence death cannot be urged
> to be its nature. Were it so, the self would be
> doing things in dreams ; but it does not. If activity
> be the .nature of the self, it will never attain Liberation ;
> but it is not, for it is absent in dreams. Hence the·
> self can get rid of death in the form of good and evil.
> Objection : But is not activity its nature in the·
> waking state ?
> Reply : No, that is due to its limiting adjuncts,
> the intellect etc. This has been proved on the ground
> of apparent activity from the text, 'It thinks, as it
> .were, and shakes. as it were' (IV. iii. 7).
>
> It may be asked. how is one to know that a man
> does not do good and evil in dreams, but merely sees
> their results? Rather the presumption is that as he
> does good and evil in the waking state, so he does
> them in the dream state also, for the experience is the
> same in both cases. This is being answered: He, the
> self, is untouched by whatever results of good and evil
> he sees in that dream state. If he actually did anything
> in dreams, he would be bound by it ; and it
> would pursue him even after he woke up. But it is
> not known in everyday life that he is pursued by deeds
> done in dreams. Nobody considers himself a sinner
> oil account of sins committed in dreams ; nor do people
> who have heard of them condemn or shun him. Therefore
> he is certinly untouched by them.

This is enough to answer the question.
What I have understood is that, even though we might not be bound by such
actions in dreams, we must pray to hari, to avoid such dreams.
I might be wrong, but this is what I inferred from reading various
Knoweldagble answers of the elders.

> Hence he
> only appears to be doing things in dreams, but actually
> there is no activity. The verse has been quoted: 'He
> seems to be enjoying himself in the company of
> ;women' (IV. iii. 13). And those who describe their
> dream experiences use the words 'as if' in this connec-
> tion, as. for instance, 'I saw to-day as if a herd ot
> elephants was running.' Therefore the self has no
> activity (in dreams).
> How is it that it has no activity? (This is being
> explained:) We see that an action is caused by the
> contact of the body and organs, which have form,
> with something else that has form. We never see a
> formless thing being active ; and the self is formless,
> hence it is unattached. And because this self is unattached,
> it is untouched by what it sees in dreams.
> Therefore we cannt>t by any means attribute activity
> to it, since activity proceeds from the contact of the
> body and organs, and that contact is non-existent for
> the self, for this infinite being (self) is unattached.
>
> regards
> subbu
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 2:35 AM Kuntimaddi Sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > PraNAms
> > As I understand, the dream is expression of suppressions and oppressions
> > in the waking state forming the requisite vasanaas. If the activities in
> > the dream are immoral, it therefore indicates that the mind had those
> > suppressed thoughts in the past.
> > If one wakes up and recognizes those dreams, it means that their
> > impressions are strong.
> > Hence it is important to purify the mind so that the mind is free from
> > those thoughts that pulls one down. One best suggestion that I can make,
> > and that also works for me is to think of the Lord before you go to sleep
> > offering all the actions of the day at this feet.
> > And think of Him again in the morning when one gets up for giving you one
> > more day to do duties that can be offered to Him - meaning the dharmic
> > duties. niyatam kuru - is the instruction - Do your obligatory duties.
> > That way the mind gets slowly purified and most of the dreams will be of
> > satvic nature.
> > In essence, mind needs to be purified from the past impressions.
> >
> > Hari Om!Sadananda
> >
> >
> >
> >     On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 03:08:44 AM EDT, Jaldhar H. Vyas via
> > Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >  On Mon, 14 Jun 2021, Kaushik Chevendra wrote:
> >
> > > namaste sir.Sir,is there a sin in dreams sir? if one commits a mistake
> > in a
> > > dream should he perform a penance?
> > > i have searched in the smriti texts sir,but there has been no mention
> of
> > > penance for a dream.
> > > But says that a sin committed mentally too,needs a penance.But in the
> > dream
> > > we arent completely aware  sir,so is it a mental sin?
> >
> > Kaushika asked me this question but in the recent fuss I didn't answer
> > sorry.  I'm posting to the list because I'd like to check if other
> members
> > agree with my answer which is:
> >
> > Just as the rope can appear to be a snake, if some sin happens in a dream
> > and the dreamer believes it is real then he should make a prayaschitta
> for
> > it.  But if he knows it is just a dream, then he as the creator of that
> > dream world can absolve himself of any wrongdoing.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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