[Advaita-l] Karma yoga: the kinder, softer preparation for self-inquiry and surrender

Akilesh Ayyar ayyar at akilesh.com
Sun Mar 21 11:35:09 EDT 2021


On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 5:28 AM Ven Balakrishnan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Akilesh
> First, Bhagavan never talked at the Ajata Vada level - at most he went to
> the

That's incorrect. He did talk at the ajata level at times. "Ajata" is still
a doctrine and therefore still verbal, though as close to non-verbal as it

E.g. from Talks:

*D.: According to the creed that there is no creation (ajatavada), the
explanations of Sri Bhagavan are faultless; but are they admissible in
other schools?M.: There are three methods of approach in Advaita vada.(1)
The ajatavada is represented by no loss, no creation, no one bound, no
sadhaka, no one desirous of liberation, no liberation. This is the Supreme
Truth. (Mandukya Karika, II - 32).*
*According to this, there is only One and it admits of no discussion.*
*(2) Drishti Srishtivada is illustrated thus:- Simultaneous creation.*

Elsewhere in Talks:

*M.: As was already said, the purpose of the whole philosophy is to
indicate the underlying Reality whether of the jagrat, svapna and sushupti
states, or the individual souls, the world and God.There are three outlooks
*(3) The Paramarthika: i.e., ajatavada (no-creation doctrine) which admits
of no second. There is no reality or absence of it, no seeking or gaining,
no bondage or liberation and so on.*

And so on.

> DSV level - because nothing can be said at the AV level.  Even to talk of
> a jivanmukta has moved away from the AV level.  Further your contention has
> been that a jivanmukta continues to have thoughts / vasanas / ego.

No, that's not been "my position." It's merely one way of looking at it.
The truth is that when one talks about jnana, there are only ways of
looking at it, and the actual truth is beyond words.

> Bhagavan’s  comments unambiguously counter that position.  If you still
> maintain that he is talking at the AV level, then logically any jnani will
> be at the level, and so will have the no-thoughts / egoless attributes that
> Bhagavan describes.

There are actually no jnanis. There is only jnana. If, however, we do want
to concede provisional reality to jnanis, then you have vasanas. If you
talk of jnanis, then we are speaking in a context which already entails

This is nevertheless one way of talking -- and it can be useful. But the
truth is that where there is a person there is no jnana, where there is
jnana there is no person.

As far as the rest of what you cite, I'm not commenting on Bhagavan's
instructions to seekers, which obviously concede the provisional existence
of thoughts and so on and suggest a move toward thoughtlessness.

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