[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, 11 May 2021, 4:20 am Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Having thought about it, this wouldn't work for the reason that the mind
> cannot be expected to go to the object which had ceased to exist millions
> of years ago.
>
> Therefore, it would appear that the simpler explanation is to say that the
> mind + sense organs do not travel to the object at all. They must be, as
> science says, reacting to light and sound presented to them at the location
> of the subject.
>
> One will have to redo the vedAnta paribhASha. Perhaps some enterprising
> soul can make the attempt!
>

In fact a friend of mine a scientist, a few years ago had a conversation
with MDS exactly on the above proposition. The ' ayuktataa' of the VP
position is what he tried to impress upon.

>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2021, 22:40 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes. However, the same is true for light as well - the object (a distant
> > galaxy) may no longer exist by the time the mind reaches it. I think the
> > answer in either case is that one would not see / hear the object if that
> > was the case.
> >
> > However, science tells us that we continue receiving the light from dead
> > stars and galaxies even after they have ceased to exist. To account for
> it
> > one could postulate thus:
> >
> > There are two journeys for the vRtti that are made - from the subject to
> > the object and back. So one could still argue that it is possible under
> the
> > vedAntic system for the object to be seen even after it is gone, provided
> > that the onward journey (from the subject to object) had been completed
> > before the object had ceased to exist.
> >
> > Therefore, operating under the spirit of parsimony (and harmony with
> > science), one could postulate that the return of the mind + indriyam from
> > the object to the subject exactly mirrors the mechanism postulated by
> > science - however, prior to that, there is an uncognised movement of the
> > mind + indriyam to the object.
> >
> > How that happens varies for chakshu and the shrotram. For chakshu, there
> > is a spatial alignment anticipated - the eyes have to be directed towards
> > the object. When that happens, the mental vRtti travels towards from the
> > subject to the object. However, no such spatial alignment is expected in
> > the case of the shortram. It behaves more akin to a radio antenna - it
> has
> > a range that it spans, and anything within that range is heard, even when
> > the hearer is not anticipating the sound. So, one could postulate that
> the
> > mind + ears automatically extend outwards (ie they span an auditory
> spatial
> > range outwards, and any sound within that spatial range is heard, without
> > the exercise of will on part of the hearer or the directing of the ears
> > towards a sound).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:20 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> If we postulate that mind+shrotra reach subsequent to the mind+chakshu
> --
> >> then by that time vishaya may no longer be there.
> >>
> >> Two clouds collide, light is produced and sound is produced
> >> simultaneously.
> >> By the time shrotra reaches there, there is no sound at vishaya desha.
> So
> >> what will it perceive. And it is our experience that we perceive sound.
> >> And
> >> also we reject शब्दान्तर उत्पत्ति due to गौरव दोष.
> >>
> >> I think we need to delve into the meaning of shabda. It is the shabda
> >> which
> >> is the vishaya of shrotra. Is shabda same as sound which requires a
> medium
> >> to propagate. If we ring a school bell in outer space, we cannot hear
> >> sound. But does it mean there is no shabda generated ?
> >>
> >> Can shabda stay even when there is no audible sound.
> >>
> >> On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 1:16 am Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > The upapatti is that science has demonstrated that the svabhAva of
> >> light is
> >> > to travel at 300,000 km/s and sound is to travel at 340 m/s.
> >> >
> >> > That being so, one could postulate that the svabhAva of mind +
> shrotram
> >> is
> >> > to travel at 340 m/s vs 300,000 km/s for the mind + chakshu.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Venkatraghavan
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, 10 May 2021, 06:36 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > While talking to Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal about the question, he
> was
> >> of
> >> > > the opinion that the mind with the shrotrendriyam reaches the
> vishaya
> >> > desha
> >> > > 'after' the m + c indirya.  There is no upapatti as such to account
> >> for
> >> > the
> >> > > relatively slow movement of the m + s.
> >> > >
> >> > > We may have to say that such is their 'svabhava'.
> >> 'दृष्टानुरोधकल्पना'.
> >> > >
> >> > > regards
> >> > > subbu
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
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