[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hari Om V Subramanian ji,

Yes. Gatva means elongation of chakshu and shrotra reaching the object.
They don't leave the body and yet go to object by elongation.

One clarification I want. Is sound and shabda the same. In my view, they
cannot. Shabda is a guna of akasha. Shrotra has shabda as vishaya and not
sound. In outer space, we cannot hear sound. But since akasha is there,
theoretically shrotra can still cognize shabda.

I think difference in shabda and sound AND rupa and light can solve the
riddle.

Regards

On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 4:16 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sudhamshu ji,
>
> Does elongation/dandaayamaana mean the same as चक्षुःश्रोत्रे तु स्वत एव
> विषयदेशं गत्वा स्वस्वविषयं गृह्णीतः, श्रोत्रस्यापि if the VP? In other
> words does elongation translate to 'gatvaa'? Is 'going' the same as as
> elongation in this context?
>
> Regards
> subbu
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2021, 7:03 pm Sudhanshu Shekhar, <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hari Om,
>>
>> // निरिन्द्रियत्व आपत्ति//  whose objection is this, on whom//
>>
>> There is a tika on VP by Panchanan Shastri ji . There he writes -- स्वत
>> एव स्वसामर्थ्यादेव स्वस्थानस्थिते एव  वा। तेन विषयसम्बन्धदशायां देहस्य न
>> निरिन्द्रियत्वापत्तिरिति भाव:। Siddhant Bindu commentary also mentions it
>> -- चक्षुरादीन्द्रियस्य  यथा जीवनदशायां न शरीरत्याग: .  Basically,
>> chakshu and shrotra both elongate and span from body to vishaya the moment
>> they face rupa and shabda. And then IF antahkaran rides over them and goes
>> to vishaya, there is pratyaksha. Otherwise, though chakshu-vishay sanyog is
>> there, there is no pratyaksha.
>>
>> If we presume that the दंडायमानत्व of chakshu and formation of
>> mano-vritti is always together, as Chandramouli ji suggests, there will be
>> no explanation of situation when see but do not cognise as Siddhant Bindu
>> commentary suggests on page 103--
>>
>> मनोsसंयुक्तचक्षुर्विषयसंयोगे तादृश शक्तिविशेषास्वीकरेण .....
>>
>> So my understanding is -- (I may be wrong. If we can confirm it, it will
>> be great). Whenever chakshu/shrota face respective vishaya, they
>> immediately become dandaayamaan and touch both body and vishaya. If mind
>> comes, rides over them and forms vritti, we get pratyaksha. If mind is
>> असंयुक्त with chakshu/shrota and chakshu/shrotra has samyog with vishaya
>> - then there will be no pratyaksha. It also explains Paribhasha drishtant
>> -- there is a canal, and channel is already built connecting canal to
>> field, water passes through channel and goes to field. Similarly, hole in
>> canal = indriyagolak, channel = dandaayamaan chakshu, water = antahkaran..
>> that is my understanding.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 10 May 2021, 15:39 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 1:15 PM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << Now once this दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति is formed and mind and
>>>> shrotra are already there at vishaya desha, how will again it need to go
>>>> there >>
>>>>
>>>> And
>>>>
>>>> << When there is indriya-vishay sanikarsha, the indriya does not leave
>>>> it's
>>>> place in body.. it stretches out till vishaya.. otherwise there will be
>>>> निरिन्द्रियत्व आपत्ति of body >>,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Vedanta Paribhasha:
>>>
>>> तत्र घटाद्यवच्छिन्नं चैतन्यं विषयचैतन्यम् , अन्तःकरणवृत्त्यवच्छिन्नं
>>> चैतन्यं प्रमाणचैतन्यम् , अन्तःकरणावच्छिन्नं चैतन्यं प्रमातृचैतन्यम् ।
>>>  तत्र यथा तडागोदकं छिद्रान्निर्गत्य कुल्यात्मना केदारान् प्रविश्य
>>> तद्वदेव चतुष्कोणाद्याकारं भवति, तथा तैजसमन्तःकरणमपि चक्षुरादिद्वारा
>>> निर्गत्य घटादिविषयदेशं गत्वा घटादिविषयाकारेण परिणमते । स एव परिणामो
>>> वृत्तिरित्युच्यते ।    This, read with the following concluding part of the
>>> Pratyaksha Pariccheda of the Vedanta Paribhasha:   चक्षुःश्रोत्रे तु स्वत
>>> एव विषयदेशं गत्वा स्वस्वविषयं गृह्णीतः, श्रोत्रस्यापि चक्षुरादिवत्
>>> परिच्छिन्नतया भेर्यादिदेशगमनसम्भवात् ।     gives us the idea: antaHkaraNam
>>> going out 'through' the chakshurindriya means: the chakshurindriya too goes
>>> out, along with the anathkaraNam to the vishayadesha to contact the
>>> vishaya.
>>>
>>> // निरिन्द्रियत्व आपत्ति//  whose objection is this, on whom?
>>>
>>> In Prashna and other Upanishads there is a story, only a story, where
>>> each indirya will leave the body for one year and return to find that he
>>> has been carrying on without that particular indriya.  This is just a
>>> story, but yet the  निरिन्द्रियत्व आपत्ति is there.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subbu
>>>
>>>>
>>>> दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति is same as manOvritti issuing through the
>>>> श्रोत्र
>>>> indriya. It stretches out till the location of vishaya. However there
>>>> is a
>>>> continuous stream of such vrittis, each extending out the same way. Each
>>>> vritti covers one cognition. Hence there is  continuity in the
>>>> cognitions.
>>>> Thus the condition considered by you
>>>>
>>>> << Considering that vishaya is same, vritti remains same. Mind+shrota of
>>>> both a and b are in vishaya desha. Yet, at 10.05.01, a has no auditory
>>>> perception but b will continue to have perception till 10.05.10 >>
>>>>
>>>> does not arise.
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << It cannot be argued that every moment new vritti is created >>,
>>>>
>>>> As said above, continuous stream of vrittis is already in position. Each
>>>> new cognition is by way of the succeeding vritti.
>>>>
>>>> I hope I have clarified my understanding.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Chandramouli
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:07 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > My understanding is as follows. Kindly correct Chandramouli ji.
>>>> >
>>>> > There is a दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति which spans from our body till
>>>> vishay
>>>> > desha. Riding on that the antahkaran forms antahkaran vritti from our
>>>> body
>>>> > till vishay desha. There owing to samyoga of shrotra and vishaya, mind
>>>> > forms vsihayAkAra vritti.
>>>> >
>>>> > Now once this दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति is formed and mind and shrotra
>>>> are
>>>> > already there at vishaya desha, how will again it need to go there.
>>>> If due
>>>> > to change in frequency, it is argued that new vishaya has come about
>>>> > needing new vritti, then let us keep the frequency same and switch
>>>> off the
>>>> > source after 5 minutes.
>>>> >
>>>> > Considering that vishaya is same, vritti remains same. Mind+shrota of
>>>> both
>>>> > a and b are in vishaya desha. Yet, at 10.05.01, a has no auditory
>>>> > perception but b will continue to have perception till 10.05.10.
>>>> >
>>>> > It cannot be argued that every moment new vritti is created.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
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