[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

PraNAms

 

Enjoyedthe discussions. 

 

>From mypoint. Only reflected light reaches the eyes. One cannot see the originallight. The full moon in the sky can illustrate the point. What I see is only abright moon - the moon that does not have luminosity of its own. Hence what Iam really seeing is the sunlight reflected by the moon. Outside the moon alsothere is sunlight which I cannot see or recognize. I need an object to reflectthe sunlight for me to recognize the presence of the sunlight there. 

Thereflection depends on the reflecting medium - in this case, the form and alsothe absorbing capacity of the reflecting medium. 

 

In thesense it is not the object that I really see but only the reflected attributeof the object. 

 

Sameapplies to the light of consciousness too - I cannot see the original but onlyits reflected image. 

 

Whenwhite light (VIBGOYR) falls on the object - an object looks red only becauseall other colors other than red are absorbed. That is the property of thereflecting medium.

 

The samelogic applies for the Sat Chit Ananda - Brahman which is all pervading. Theinert object only reflect the Sat aspect - no chit and ananda. The subtleobjects such as mind reflects not only sat but chit also depending on thequality of the mind (chidaabhasa). Just as by reflecting sunlight the moon hasbecome a luminous entity in the sky, the same way mind being subtle byreflecting Chit appears as a conscious entity. - Sat and Chit get reflected bythe mind and not ananda. Ananda also get reflected only when the mind is calmand serene - to that degree Ananda also gets reflected. 

 

In allthese the essence is we cannot see the original light or the light of allpervading consciousness - we can only see its reflection depending on thequality of the reflecting medium. 

 

It isaccepted that for other senses - touch, taste, smell, the quality of the objecthas to come in contact with the senses anyway. 

 

Science,however cannot explain - how a 'thought' arises in the mind. The optical imagein the retina is transmitted in terms of neurons to the brain - then? That isend of objective sciences. 

 

Using theanalogy of computers, we can say the charge input is converted into software,thoughts. The great Lord has put in a universal program code to convert thesense input into thoughts that mind can read - again of course by thereflection of the light of consciousness by the thought - this is discussed inthe Vedanta Paribhasha as perceptuality condition where the consciousness thatI am joins with the object form imaged in the form of 'thought' for me to beconscious of the contents of the thought. Just as by reflecting sunlight I amnow conscious of the contents of the moon. 

Hence inevery thought the consciousness is revealed by the reflection process. HenceKena says - pratibodha viditam matam - it is revealed in every thought. 

 

My 2c

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 



 

    On Tuesday, May 11, 2021, 11:20:21 AM EDT, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:  
 
 Namaste
‘para matam apratishiddham anumatam bhavati’,

Therefore  science results can be accepted when it is not contradicting
Advaita.

Light and sound have different speeds. Sound cannot travel through vaccum
but light can.

Light reaches the eye faster than sound reaches the ear.

No harm in accepting these ideas.

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 4:20 AM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Having thought about it, this wouldn't work for the reason that the mind
> cannot be expected to go to the object which had ceased to exist millions
> of years ago.
>
> Therefore, it would appear that the simpler explanation is to say that the
> mind + sense organs do not travel to the object at all. They must be, as
> science says, reacting to light and sound presented to them at the location
> of the subject.
>
> One will have to redo the vedAnta paribhASha. Perhaps some enterprising
> soul can make the attempt!
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2021, 22:40 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes. However, the same is true for light as well - the object (a distant
> > galaxy) may no longer exist by the time the mind reaches it. I think the
> > answer in either case is that one would not see / hear the object if that
> > was the case.
> >
> > However, science tells us that we continue receiving the light from dead
> > stars and galaxies even after they have ceased to exist. To account for
> it
> > one could postulate thus:
> >
> > There are two journeys for the vRtti that are made - from the subject to
> > the object and back. So one could still argue that it is possible under
> the
> > vedAntic system for the object to be seen even after it is gone, provided
> > that the onward journey (from the subject to object) had been completed
> > before the object had ceased to exist.
> >
> > Therefore, operating under the spirit of parsimony (and harmony with
> > science), one could postulate that the return of the mind + indriyam from
> > the object to the subject exactly mirrors the mechanism postulated by
> > science - however, prior to that, there is an uncognised movement of the
> > mind + indriyam to the object.
> >
> > How that happens varies for chakshu and the shrotram. For chakshu, there
> > is a spatial alignment anticipated - the eyes have to be directed towards
> > the object. When that happens, the mental vRtti travels towards from the
> > subject to the object. However, no such spatial alignment is expected in
> > the case of the shortram. It behaves more akin to a radio antenna - it
> has
> > a range that it spans, and anything within that range is heard, even when
> > the hearer is not anticipating the sound. So, one could postulate that
> the
> > mind + ears automatically extend outwards (ie they span an auditory
> spatial
> > range outwards, and any sound within that spatial range is heard, without
> > the exercise of will on part of the hearer or the directing of the ears
> > towards a sound).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Venkatraghavan
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:20 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> If we postulate that mind+shrotra reach subsequent to the mind+chakshu
> --
> >> then by that time vishaya may no longer be there.
> >>
> >> Two clouds collide, light is produced and sound is produced
> >> simultaneously.
> >> By the time shrotra reaches there, there is no sound at vishaya desha.
> So
> >> what will it perceive. And it is our experience that we perceive sound.
> >> And
> >> also we reject शब्दान्तर उत्पत्ति due to गौरव दोष.
> >>
> >> I think we need to delve into the meaning of shabda. It is the shabda
> >> which
> >> is the vishaya of shrotra. Is shabda same as sound which requires a
> medium
> >> to propagate. If we ring a school bell in outer space, we cannot hear
> >> sound. But does it mean there is no shabda generated ?
> >>
> >> Can shabda stay even when there is no audible sound.
> >>
> >> On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 1:16 am Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > The upapatti is that science has demonstrated that the svabhAva of
> >> light is
> >> > to travel at 300,000 km/s and sound is to travel at 340 m/s.
> >> >
> >> > That being so, one could postulate that the svabhAva of mind +
> shrotram
> >> is
> >> > to travel at 340 m/s vs 300,000 km/s for the mind + chakshu.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Venkatraghavan
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, 10 May 2021, 06:36 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > While talking to Sri Mani Dravid Sastrigal about the question, he
> was
> >> of
> >> > > the opinion that the mind with the shrotrendriyam reaches the
> vishaya
> >> > desha
> >> > > 'after' the m + c indirya.  There is no upapatti as such to account
> >> for
> >> > the
> >> > > relatively slow movement of the m + s.
> >> > >
> >> > > We may have to say that such is their 'svabhava'.
> >> 'दृष्टानुरोधकल्पना'.
> >> > >
> >> > > regards
> >> > > subbu
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh
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