[Advaita-l] FW: ​Re: [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 5:05 PM Michael Chandra Cohen <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Subbuji, pranam
> I don't know what it is I said that you are responding to but I will take
> your post under advisement and get back to you. 🙏
>

Namaste

I was replying to Sri Chandramouli's post which was in reply to you.

regards
subbu

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 6:15 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 3:03 PM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Michael Ji,
>>>
>>> You made the following statements in your response to JN Ji
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Following  forms part of BUB 4-3-20
>>>
>>> <<  इदम् अविद्यायाः सतत्त्वं सह कार्येण प्रदर्शितम्  >>
>>>
>>> <<  idam avidyAyAH satattvaM saha kAryeNa pradarshitam  >>
>>>
>>> Translation by Swami Madhavananda  <<  Thus the nature of ignorance with
>>> its effects has been set forth  >>
>>>
>>> Unless AvidyA is BhAvarUpa, can we talk of **its effects**? . Would you
>>>  consider this  adequate  BhAshya pramANa  for AvidyA  as BhAvarUpa or
>>> existent as you term it.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is very interesting to see how Sri SSS covers this  portion in his
>>>  kannada translationIn/commentary  of the Bhashya. Sri SSS covers this
>>> under the heading  **AvidyA is not the nature of Atman** (Not the
>>> स्वाभाविकधर्म  svAbhAvikadharma).  He puts the word  **सह** (saha)  in
>>> the
>>> Bhashya within brackets and in a Footnote mentions that this word
>>> **appears
>>> to be unnecessary**.
>>>
>>> He translates the whole sentence as follows
>>>
>>> (Translation mine)  << That this is the tatva of AvidyA has been shown
>>> through the effects (kArya)  >>
>>>
>>> Sri SSS makes the following observation in a Footnote
>>>
>>> <<  Since the Nature of AvidyA (अविद्यास्वरूप avidyAsvarUpa)  has not
>>> been
>>> dealt with here, it will be inappropriate to translate the Bhashya as
>>> **along with its effects**. Therefore we  are of the opinion that it is
>>> unnecessary to include the word  **सह** (saha) >>.
>>>
>>
>> What about this verse by Sureshwara, which contains the expression
>> 'avidyaa saha kaaryena...'?
>>
>> तत्त्वमस्यादिवाक्योत्थसंयग्धीजन्ममात्रतः ।
>> *अविद्या सह कार्येण नासीदस्ति भविष्यति ॥ *
>>
>> The Tattvamasi, etc. passages give rise to that knowledge which dispels
>> the avidya, along with its effects, which is non-existent in all the three
>> periods of time.
>>
>> There is an instance of the word  'kAraNA sharIram' (Causal body, apart
>> from gross and subtle bodies for a jiva) in the  Ishavasya Upanishad
>> bashya. Sri SSS finding that irksome has given a footnote that this is
>> perhaps a later addition to the bhashya.
>>
>>
>> https://adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=kannada&book_id=089&pagenum=0026#page/32/mode/1up
>>
>>  शुद्धं निर्मलमविद्यामलरहितमिति कारणशरीरप्रतिषेधः ।   Isha. Up. Bh. 8th
>> mantra.
>>
>> Sri SSS, on this page, in a footnote No.4, remarks that the word  'kAraNA
>> sharIram'  is to be taken as Avidya which is the one that causes that one
>> is embodied. He further remarks this 'kAraNA sharIram'  is not found in any
>> of the prasthana traya corpus. So its appearing here is to be examined by
>> the knowledgeable ones.
>>
>> regards
>> subbu
>>
>>
>>> I have come across several instances wherein alternate  versions of the
>>> Bhashya are presented  under Footnotes. Sri SSS has in fact regularly
>>> listed them throughout his texts on PTB. But this is a rare case wherein
>>> the Bhashya itself is sought to be amended by a Commentator observing
>>> that
>>> some parts are considered  (by the commentator) **unnecessary** and hence
>>> deleted !!!  This is considered as  **ONLY commentary strictly adhereing
>>> to
>>> the Bhashya** ??
>>>
>>> The link ID  to the translation/commentary
>>>
>>> <<
>>>
>>> http://www.adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=kannada&book_id=098B&pagenum=2b0279#page/483/mode/1up
>>> >>
>>>
>>> BUB 4-3-20, Book page 433/434.
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Regards
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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