[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Analysis of Standpoints

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Chandramouliji, 

In the Jnanayoga section of the Uddhava Gita, Lord Krishna said very clearly that what was not there in the past and will not be there in future is as good as not there in the present. This short and sweet message is the summary, as to how the Vyavaharika appears to the jnani.
My two cents.
Jai Jagadguru Krishnaki  Jai
Sunil KB

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 13, 2022, at 2:55 AM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Namaskaram.
> 
> There is no vyAvahArika or pAramArthika viewpoint  of a jnAni in my understanding. The nature of a jnAni is as follows in my understanding.
> 
> For an ajnAni, the *I* sense identifies itself very strongly with the antahkaraNa or BMI. I am not elaborating as it is unnecessary. For a jnAni, there are two states possible. In one state, his *I* sense completely dissociates itself from the antahkaraNa or BMI and *identifies*  itself  with Brahman. This is his state of nirvikalpa samAdhi. There is no perception of duality. But there is really no *experiential anubhava*  either in such a state. At other times, the *I* sense of the jnAni  identifies itself with the antahkaraNa or BMI, but such identification is very very weak. He perceives duality no doubt, but with very little association with the duality. His understanding is one of  sarvAtmabhAva and he enjoys great Ananda in this state. Experiences of Sages Vamadeva/Trishnku /Sthitaprajna  etc  fall in this category. This is the experiential jnAna phala of a jnAni. He can and does interact with the world in such a state, and is perhaps what you have termed vyAvahArika standpoint. Since the identification with BMI is very weak, there is no resultant karma phala associated with any of his actions. Hence there is no rebirth for him.
> 
> This in brief is my understanding.
> 
> Regards
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 3:15 PM putran M <putranm4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Namaskaram,
>> 
>>> 
>>> to insist on as the only standpoint that constitutes truth. The "traditional" side (as I understand) accepts the paramarthika standpoint but does not negate absolutely (as being only adhyasa) the vyavaharika standpoint.
>>> 
>> 
>> Analogy for two-standpoint perspective: Consider "stone". There is a paramarthika standpoint where there is only Stone and naught else. (This should not be confused as "Duality exists but is not cognized or lost in some other higher Cognition". Duality is simply asat in paramarthika).  There is a vyavaharika standpoint where the statue nama-rupa appearance is posited in the stone and (for the jnani) the adhishtana stone is manifest as Statue. The ajnani starts talking of the hands and eyes as distinct realities; the jnani sees only stone appearing as All. The statue-cognition for both jnani and ajnani is not simply due to adhyasa that has to vanish upon realizing I am seeing Stone only. It denotes a lower order of reality.
>> 
>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>  
>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 2:17 AM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Namaste.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reg  << The issue as I understand is whether a duality of cognition can be admitted in spite of and alongside the knowledge of nondual Self >>,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shruti is the authority in this regard and it has adequately addressed  the issue. It lists the experiences of Sages Vamadeva, Trishanku (in TU), the jnAni who exclaims **ahamanna….ahamannAdah…** in TU etc  which address the issue unambiguously. Such a duality of cognition is admitted. Where  then is the doubt?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 12:24:27 PM UTC+5:30 putranm4 wrote:
>>>>>> The swamiji explains their viewpoint on adhyasa between minutes 10 and 15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfB6BmYrBqU&list=PLMddRSWoHnQY9kX3hpmMgw2WZg0b0fJ82
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One cannot unambiguously tell whether he thinks these statements contradict the traditionalist's position. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We all agree that adhyasa does not exist for the atma ("from His standpoint"), and vanishes when awareness turns towards it (or aligns with paramarthika standpoint). We agree that for the knower, the Self alone is the adhishtana of all cognition. The issue as I understand is whether a duality of cognition can be admitted in spite of and alongside the knowledge of nondual Self, and the implications thereafter: Like, Two standpoints: 1. Brahman 2. Brahman+Maya; Maya (and nama-rupa) mithya, Brahman sathya. etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:59 PM putran M <putr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Namaskaram,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> “ so long as he [jnani] sees the duality”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here, it should be obvious that the duality mentioned as being seen by the jnani is of the movie-appearance category ( affirming cognition of nama-rupa multiplicity), sans the (ignorance) belief in its contents that the ajnani has. According to this strict viewpoint, even such a rudimentary acknowledgment of nama-rupa (seer-seen divide) dualistic appearance belongs to vyavaharika and corresponds to dualistic association of Maya in Brahman. The negation of such vyavaharika is not done by calling it adhyasa on paramarthika; rather it belongs to a lower level of ‘reality’ that is mithya from the standpoint of the Jnani in vyavaharika.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:44 AM putran M <putr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Namaskaram,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Compiled some thoughts. Attaching as a file.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/78d36674-e5b4-46f1-bc85-d04eb9819105n%40googlegroups.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKqm3-ovjpr2K1mR6dS2bF_ytrmDHT9pCJSQDWwAz3p0y8SJDg%40mail.gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAEs%2B%2BdNeoyxpr7f53%3Dnw2yeZ0WyhUUaa66XGroFLWiAV0qjTog%40mail.gmail.com.