[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Bhavarupa and Orders of Reality

[V Subrahmanian]

Very nicely stated Chandramouli ji.  Thanks.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 2:11 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> Reg  <<  It is said that avidya is bhavarupa i.e. something that is
> existentent because otherwise jnana cannot remove it. My question is - by
> existence what is meant - conceptual existence or physical existence? >>,
>
>  avidyA as bhAvarUpa involves both *conceptual* meaning jnAna , as well as
> *physical* meaning *vastu* or *object*. Technically it is termed involving
> both अर्थाध्यास (arthAdhyAsa)  and ज्ञानाध्यास (j~nAnAdhyAsa).
>
> Conceptual  alone would mean something relating to jnAna ONLY. Nothing
>  *physical* associated with it. That makes avidyA  *abhAvarUpa*. Only
> ज्ञानाध्यास (j~nAnAdhyAsa), but no अर्थाध्यास (arthAdhyAsa).
>
> Reg  << The second question on which I am seeking clarity is on orders of
> reality. It seems to me that whenever there is adhyasa, the substratum and
> the superimposition belong to two different orders of reality. If this is
> not so, subsequent sublation is impossible  >>,
>
> AdhyAsa always involves different Orders of Reality. There are  different
>  types of AdhyAsa. They are categorized also in different ways.
>
> One way of categorization is  स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) and
> संसर्गाध्यास (saMsargAdhyAsa).
>
> In स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) the entities involved are themselves
> considered to be of  different Orders of Reality. Superimposition of
> Rope-Snake on Rope,Creation on Brahman are examples of  स्वरूपाध्यास
> (svarUpAdhyAsa). Rope-Snake and  Creation belong to different Orders of
> Reality  with respect to Rope and Brahman respectively, and are  considered
>  अध्यास  by their  very nature (स्वरूप  svarUpa).
>
> In संसर्गाध्यास (saMsargAdhyAsa)  on the other hand, the entities are
> considered as of the same Order of Reality, but their relationship or
> association   is  of a different Order of Reality and considered as अध्यास
> (adhyAsa). Their relationship  or association  can neither be declared
>  related or nonrelated  अनिर्वचनीय (anirvachanIya). Examples are mirror
> and reflection there in, clear crystal and  its coloration due to a nearby
> flower. In this case, mirror/reflection as well as crystal/coloration are
> of one Order  of Reality,  while their relationship or association is
> another Order of Reality.
>
> Another way of categorization is निरुपाधिक अध्यास (nirupAdhika adhyAsa) and
> सोपाधिक अध्यास (sopAdhika adhyAsa).  They could be considered as broadly
> corresponding to  स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) and संसर्गाध्यास
> (saMsargAdhyAsa) respectively.
>
> My understanding.
>
> Regards
> Chandramouli
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:32 AM S Venkatraman <svenkat52 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste,
>>
>> From all the discussions going on in this forum, I am quite confused
>> about the meaning of the term bhavarupa and hence am seeking clarity.
>>
>> It is said that avidya is bhavarupa i.e. something that is existentent
>> because otherwise jnana cannot remove it. My question is - by existence
>> what is meant - conceptual existence or physical existence?
>>
>> The second question on which I am seeking clarity is on orders of
>> reality. It seems to me that whenever there is adhyasa, the substratum and
>> the superimposition belong to two different orders of reality. If this is
>> not so, subsequent sublation is impossible.
>>
>> Example 1 - World is superimposed on Brahman due to avidya. World belongs
>> to Vyaavahaarika satta and Brahman to Paaramaarthika satta.
>>
>> Example 2 - Snake is superimposed on Rope due to bad light. Snake belongs
>> to Praatibhaasika satta and rope to Vyaavahaarika satta.
>>
>> Is my understanding right?
>>
>> Thank you and regards,
>> Venkat
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 23-Dec-2022, at 10:30 PM, Jaishankar Narayanan <jai1971 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Namaste,
>>
>> According to Bhaskar ji avidyA-kalpita (atyanta asat
>> jnAna-abhAva-kalpita) mAyA is vyAvahArika satya and it is ‘existing
>> thing’ like water!! and it is anirvachaneeya.
>>
>> Really great logic!
>>
>> with love and prayers,
>> Jaishankar
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "advaitin" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAOkLS-EuZdJVasUFe7o6v%2Bhk8TZ%3DXCDRbJEpNAfWtZ91%2B_0UhA%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAOkLS-EuZdJVasUFe7o6v%2Bhk8TZ%3DXCDRbJEpNAfWtZ91%2B_0UhA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "advaitin" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/2E632FA1-6BA7-4AA9-A2BB-AB81EA6A97A7%40gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/2E632FA1-6BA7-4AA9-A2BB-AB81EA6A97A7%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "advaitin" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAEs%2B%2BdP%3Dh247KdyZYfGpkNwS_4GKEC2%3Dsz3zzQO-4XDxWaeXvA%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAEs%2B%2BdP%3Dh247KdyZYfGpkNwS_4GKEC2%3Dsz3zzQO-4XDxWaeXvA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>