[Advaita-l] Paul Hacker on Avidya in Brahma Sutras

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Chandramouli Sir, It is agreed by all that Upadesha Sahasri is a work of
Bhagavat Pujya. The one Sureswara reference you cited was discounted by SSS
in my last correspondence. Sureswara's reference to US18.47 is translated
by Alston in a manner not consistent with bhavarupa avidya - footnote
included:

rajju-sarpo yatha rajjva satmakah prag vivekatah avastu sann api hy esa
kutasthenatmana tatha
"[46] Just as the rope-snake, (though unreal), possesses being by virtue of
the rope until it is discriminated from it, so also does the (complex of)
the Self, receptacle and reflection (possess being) by virtue of the
changeless Self (until it is discriminated from it).1"

fn1 The words ‘Self, receptacle and reflection’ have been drawn in from the
following verse according to the interpretation of the present verse given
by Svami Satchidanandendra in The Method of the Vedanta (London, 1989),
p.335 and p.432.

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 12:12 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pranams Cohen,
>
> I have limited myself to the  correctness of the statement by Hacker cited
> by you
>
> <<   For instance,  Hacker states,
>
> "If follows from what has been discussed up to this point that S. does not
> materialize avidyA. As a result the adjective jada, which is constantly
> added to avidyA from PadmapAda onward ... is missing in S. Moreover, the
> epithet *bhavarupa, *which can be found in Advaita texts from JnAnottama
> onward, is missing"  >>
>
> You had raised the question of authenticity of  certain works cited by me
> being attributed to Sri Bhagavatpada  notably  Upadesha Sahasri which
> contradicted the above statement. In that connection you had mentioned Sri
> SSS as one of the principal persons who had studied and presented many
> relevant issues on the topic of authorship. So in that context, I had
> mentioned that Sri SSS considered Upadesha Sahasri as being one of the
> works of Sri Bhagavatpada. In addition I had also presented references
> wherein Sri Swami Sureswaracharya, whose works are also considered as
> authoritative by Sri SSS, and who was a direct disciple of Sri
> Bhagavatpada, clearly identified  Upadesha Sahasri as one of the works of
> Sri Bhagavatpada. Beyond that, I had no intention of drawing upon the views
> of either Sri SSS or Sri Swami Sureswaracharya on any topic concerning
> Advaita Sidhanta per se. The emphasis in  my posts has only been on the
> views presented by Sri Bhagavatpada himself in Upadesha Sahasri which
> clearly contradict the statement by Hacker cited above.
>
> I have certainly no intention of discussing the views of Sri SSS here in
> this thread.
>
> Regards
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 7:05 PM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pranam Sri Chandramouli,
>>
>> One of things I've learned from this paper is the degree that
>> Sureswaracharya differs from Bhasyakara. That opposes SSS's position of
>> Sankara and Sureswara siddhanta parampara - I invite comments from SSS
>> devotees.
>>
>> Though I have not consulted the Vartika reference to "apparent existence
>> (bhAvarUpa)" it seems to me one reference doesn't make a case to contradict
>> Hacker's conclusion when there is substantial support otherwise. Below is
>> SSS on the Vartika reference.
>>
>> " Wherever in the Vartika there is a reference to  Ignorance as a
>> material cause, this is predicated of Ignorance considered as having
>> assumed its form as the non-conscious Un¬ manifest Principle. It is not a
>> reference to it in its own characteristic nature as confusion. For the
>> whole conception of cause arid effect is only mentioned in the Vdrtika at
>> all to show that it is created by Ignorance. From the standpoint of
>> practical experience, on the other hand, causality can be ac¬ cepted
>> wherever it is found. (SSS, Method of the Vedanta, p335 "
>>
>> You may also wish to peruse the text below by a close student of SSS on
>> this topic:
>> http://www.adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/english/english_books_toc.php?book_id=048&type=english&book_title=Teaching+of+Brahman+through+the+Attributions+of+Avidya+and+Maya
>>
>> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 8:38 AM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 8:16 PM Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> <<  However, this is a recent study that better informs this thread of
>>> discussion. I think it is a worthy support for some of SSS's contentions
>>> and I implore all forum members to give it some thought.
>>> best regards.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.academia.edu/79198170/The_Reliability_of_Hacker_s_Criteria_for_Determining_%C5%9Aa%E1%B9%85kara_s_Authorship
>>> >>,
>>>
>>> The article deals principally with authorship of various prakarana
>>> granthas
>>> attributed to Sri Bhagavatpada. I presume this is in response to my post
>>> citing references to such works which contradict contention of Hacker
>>>
>>> <<    For instance,  Hacker states,
>>>
>>> "If follows from what has been discussed up to this point that S. does
>>> not
>>> materialize avidyA. As a result the adjective jada, which is constantly
>>> added to avidyA from PadmapAda onward ... is missing in S. Moreover, the
>>> epithet *bhavarupa, *which can be found in Advaita texts from JnAnottama
>>> onward, is missing"  >>
>>>
>>> Sri SSS himself, while dismissing authorship claims of most of such works
>>> generally attributed to Sri Bhagavatpada, readily admits that Upadesha
>>> Sahasri is indeed the work of Sri Bhagavatpada. In holding this view, he
>>> draws upon the fact that this work is repeatedly cited by Swami
>>> Sureswaracharya in his own works. And Sri SSS is by his own admission an
>>> ardent follower of Swami Sureswaracharya.
>>>
>>> Swami Sureswaracharya contends in BUBV 1-4-442 that ajnAna derives its
>>> status of apparent existence (bhAvarUpa)  from the सद्वस्तु (sadvastu ).
>>>
>>> <<  मिथ्याज्ञानस्य  वस्तुत्वं  येनैव  स्यात्सदात्मना II  अज्ञानस्यापि
>>> तेनैष
>>> सत्यत्वं  केन  वार्यते ?  II  >>
>>>
>>> <<  mithyAj~nAnasya  vastutvaM  yenaiva  syAtsadAtmanA II  aj~nAnasyApi
>>> tenaiSha  satyatvaM  kena  vAryate ?  II  >>
>>>
>>> In support of this, Swami Sureswaracharya refers to and cites the
>>> Upadesha
>>> Sahasri verse 18-46 as BUBV 1-4-443 wherein he adds in the fourth pAda
>>> that
>>> such a view is as espoused by his predecessors, meaning Sri Bhagavatpada.
>>> The first three pAdAs are a repeat of verse 18-46 of Upadesha Sahasri.
>>>
>>> <<  रज्जुसर्पो  यधा  रज्ज्वा  सात्मकः  प्राग्विवेकतः I  अवस्तुसन्नपि
>>> ह्येष
>>> इति पूजैरपीरितम्  II  >>
>>>
>>> <<  rajjusarpo  yadhA  rajjvA  sAtmakaH  prAgvivekataH I  avastusannapi
>>> hyeSha  iti pUjairapIritam  II  >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Undoubtedly, Hacker got his data wrong in concluding that
>>>
>>> <<  "If follows from what has been discussed up to this point that S.
>>> does
>>> not
>>> materialize avidyA. As a result the adjective jada, which is constantly
>>> added to avidyA from PadmapAda onward ... is missing in S. Moreover, the
>>> epithet *bhavarupa, *which can be found in Advaita texts from JnAnottama
>>> onward, is missing"  >>
>>>
>>> Presumably his subsequent observations are heavily influenced by this
>>> wrong
>>> starting point.
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 8:16 PM Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Namaste and pranam to all who responded to my initial post. I am having
>>> > server issues and am otherwise overwhelmed with formulating suitably
>>> > thoughtful replies.
>>> >
>>> > However, this is a recent study that better informs this thread of
>>> > discussion. I think it is a worthy support for some of SSS's
>>> contentions
>>> > and I implore all forum members to give it some thought.
>>> > best regards.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://www.academia.edu/79198170/The_Reliability_of_Hacker_s_Criteria_for_Determining_%C5%9Aa%E1%B9%85kara_s_Authorship
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>>