[Advaita-l] Paul Hacker on Avidya in Brahma Sutras

[Venkatraghavan S]

Sir,
The absence of a thing cannot be the cause for anything. Shankara himself
has said that in many places - please see the Bhagavat Gita bhAShya where
he dismisses the notion that a failure to perform nitya karma is the cause
for the production of pratyavAya pApa.

To say that an epistemological agrahaNa produces an effect is putting the
cart before the horse - we are trying to determine whether ignorance is an
epistemological agrahaNa or an ontological AvaraNa. Only when that is
determined can we cite that as an illustration for a non-existent cause
having the capacity to produce an existent effect.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan


On Thu, 19 May 2022, 22:13 Michael Chandra Cohen, <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sri Venkatraghavan, namaste
> *Something from nothing is good epistemology, bad ontology. avidya is an
> epistemological error upon an ontological reality. An epistemological
> agrahana commonly produces an effect - not knowing the train's schedule;
> forgetting the wife's birthday. Name and form is all that accounts for what
> we call jagat.    *
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 12:40 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Praveen ji,
>> Indeed. That adhyAsa is a samsArahetu cannot be in doubt - asya
>> *anarthahetoh* prahANAya AtmaikyavidyApratipattaye sarve vedAntA
>> Arabhyante, says the bhAShyakAra.
>>
>> If such an adhyAsa is anartha hetu, it must be bhAvarUpa. If that is not
>> accepted, then it will be a case of a non-existent thing leading to a
>> bhAvarUpa samsAra consisting of kartRtva / bhoktRtva / rAga/ / dveSha. So
>> whatever is the type of bhAvarUpatva that is conceded by ajnAna
>> abhAvavAdin-s for adhyAsa and samsAra, is the same bhAvarUpatva that is
>> accepted ajnAna bhAvavAdin-s.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 10:15 AM Praveen R. Bhat <bhatpraveen at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Namaste Venkatji,
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 11:13 AM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Re the contention that bhAvarUpatva of avidyA is a post Shankara
>> >> construct, there is a very interesting passage in the bRhadAraNyaka
>> bhAShya
>> >> to the mantra 4.3.20 where the bhAvrUpatva of avidyA is indicated:
>> >>
>> >> तथा अविद्यायामप्युत्कृष्यमाणायाम् , तिरोधीयमानायां च विद्यायाम् ,
>> >> अविद्यायाः फलं प्रत्यक्षत एवोपलभ्यते — ‘अथ यत्रैनं घ्नन्तीव जिनन्तीव’
>> इति ।
>> >> When ignorance increases and knowledge is suppressed, the results of
>> >> ignorance are directly perceived i.e. - "now, if he feels like he was
>> as
>> >> though being killed, or as though being overpowered".
>> >>
>> > ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for the Brihad bhAShya quotations. There is another issue that I
>> > keep pointing out to those who object to avidyA being bhAvarUpa that if
>> it
>> > is abhAvarUpa, then it cannot be any kind of kAraNa to anything, let
>> alone
>> > saMsAra. If they argue that mAyA, "different from avidyA" is the kAraNa,
>> > still adhyAsa has to be accepted as a kAraNa for individuality. If
>> adhyAsa
>> > is same as avidyA, avidyA being abhAvarUpa, and any kind of kAraNa,
>> would
>> > leave us with no possibility of rejecting shUnyavAda wholesale! A
>> > non-existent avidyA/ adhyAsa contributing to any saMsaraNa or delusion
>> or
>> > whatever it contributes to, is no better than shUnyavAda.
>> >
>> > Somewhere in Taittiriyabhashya, if memory serves right, Bhagavan
>> > Bhashyakara says that even Naiyyayika's prAgabhAva is different from
>> this
>> > shUnya of yours to a Bauddha pUrvapakSha, the former being a padArtha
>> while
>> > the latter complete non-existence.
>> >
>> > gurupAdukAbhyAm,
>> > --Praveen R. Bhat
>> > /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one
>> know
>> > That, owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>