[Advaita-l] ​Re: [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

I've posted your response on Facebook. Let's see what response we get.



On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:16 PM Jaishankar Narayanan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear  Michael Chandra Cohen ji,
>
> You ask - what is Mithya?
>
> Mithya / Asat / Anrtam - these are all ontological terms used by Advaitins
> and Bhasyakara. For a definition see BG Bhashya 2.16
> न असतः अविद्यमानस्य शीतोष्णादेः सकारणस्य न विद्यते नास्ति भावो भवनम्
> अस्तिता ॥ न हि शीतोष्णादि सकारणं प्रमाणैर्निरूप्यमाणं वस्तुसद्भवति । विकारो
> हि सः, विकारश्च व्यभिचरति । यथा घटादिसंस्थानं चक्षुषा निरूप्यमाणं
> मृद्व्यतिरेकेणानुपलब्धेरसत् , तथा सर्वो विकारः कारणव्यतिरेकेणानुपलब्धेरसन्
> । जन्मप्रध्वंसाभ्यां प्रागूर्ध्वं च अनुपलब्धेः कार्यस्य घटादेः
> मृदादिकारणस्य च तत्कारणव्यतिरेकेणानुपलब्धेरसत्त्वम् ॥
>
> Also Taittiriya Bhasya 2.1
> सत्यमिति यद्रूपेण यन्निश्चितं तद्रूपं न व्यभिचरति, तत्सत्यम् । यद्रूपेण
> यन्निश्चितं तद्रूपं व्यभिचरति, तदनृतमित्युच्यते । अतो विकारोऽनृतम् , ‘
> वाचारम्भणं विकारो नामधेयं मृत्तिकेत्येव सत्यम्’ (छा. उ. ६ । १ । ४) एवं सदेव
> सत्यमित्यवधारणात् ।
>
> To summarise - that which is a modification, an effect, available for sense
> perception, not separately available from its cause, has beginning (not
> available before) and end (not available after), that which after being
> ascertained in one form, changes from that - is mithya, asat , anrtam.
>
> Now the world is mithya, asat, anrtam and its cause avidya is also of the
> same nature - mithya, asat, anrtam. It cannot be a totally non-existent
> jnaana-abhaava. So Vedanta Sara is correct in identfying Maya / Avidya as
> kinchit bhavarupa - as real and as existent as the mithya / asat world.
> Obviously it has no existence from a Paaramaartika drishti / standpoint.
> Does avidya as an upadhi not create dvaita? Shankara has already answered
> this in Br. Up Bh 3.5.1
> नामरूपोपाध्यस्तित्वे ‘एकमेवाद्वितीयम्’ (छा. उ. ६ । २ । १) ‘नेह नानास्ति
> किञ्चन’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ४ । १९) इति श्रुतयो विरुध्येरन्निति चेत् — न,
> सलिलफेनदृष्टान्तेन परिहृतत्वात् मृदादिदृष्टान्तैश्च ;
>
> The essence of my quotation from 3.5.1 bhashya is - The mithya vyavahaara
> (worldly transactions) due to differentiation is there for those who accept
> things as different from brahman (ignorant) and for those who do not (the
> jnaani). Now according to Swamiji if knowledge destroys vyakta-adhyaasa
> (not just ajnaana) then how can he account for statements like these? How
> does he even explain Jeevan-mukti?
>
> How can a non-existent thing be a pedagogical tool? It makes immense sense
> to say moola-avidya is as real as the world appearance and use it as a
> pedagogical tool (adhyaaropa) rather than proposing an abhaava. As the
> world is negated, moola-avidya also is destroyed / negated along with it as
> mithya / anrtam / asat.
>
> Why ajnaana cannot be jnaana-abhaava has been discussed in Swaaraajya
> Siddhi and in Samkshepashaareeraka. I may have to refer the books to get
> the exact verses.
>
> with love and prayers,
> Jaishankar
>
> Message: 8
> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 07:25:49 -0500
> > From: Michael Chandra Cohen <michaelchandra108 at gmail.com>
> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> >         <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAAz9PvFjjhwR33SJzEhejMZbJbBnjDsO4-nf9-=
> > xaKwSYMCZ8g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Namaste Jaishankara Narayan, thank you for your reflections in reply. I
> > have taken the liberty of sharing your response on Facebook and will, in
> > turn, share here worthy responses.
> >
> > To  your first point, what is mithya? Vedanta Sara is
> > staunchly mulAvidyAvada. .The text lists 5 definitions of maya/avidya all
> > of which denote some kind of positive, bhavarupa, existent.
> > To your second point, a) please translate Brbh 3.5.1. -- b) " Now the
> above
> > (pedagogical tool) applies exactly to moolavidya. " -- moola avidya is an
> > existent, Eshwara's Maya Shakti, a positive bhavarupa avidya and not
> simply
> > a teaching tool?
> > To your third point, please be specific, how exactly and where has jnana
> > abhava been dealt with?
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 1:02 AM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
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