[Advaita-l] ​Re: [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.
For << It may be of interest to note Sri SSS himself has admitted to this
equation >>,

Please read

<< It may be of interest to note Sri SSS himself has admitted to this
equation as obtaining in the Bhashya >>

Regards

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:31 AM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Bhaskar Ji,
>
> I just noticed the following from one of your posts in Advaitin (I am not
> a member in that group).
>
> <<  Kindly let us know whether this scholar have spoken anything about
> avidyA=mAya when he is citing the meanings and grammatical forms.  If yes,
> had he quoted any justification for this conclusion?? >>.
>
> It may be of interest to note Sri SSS himself has admitted to this
> equation. Please refer  to **Introduction**  by Sri SSS in his text on
> KathOpanishad, page vi, in kannada under the title “what is avidyA”, which
> I have translated to English here
>
> Quote  << *Although the AchArya has indeed used at some places the terms
> avidyA and mAyA as synonymous terms*, since apart from deliberating  that
> avidyA is mithyAjnAna which is destroyed by vidyA (AdhyAsa BhAshya) and
> that mayA is the seedform of nAmarUpa imagined through avidyA
> (avidyAkalpita) (BSB 2-1-14) ;  again further in a sUtra bhAshya initiated
> for deliberating upon the meaning of the term **avyakta **, two versions
> are separately presented ;; on the one hand taking the stand that **avyakta
> is mAyA ** and on the other hand  ** avyakta is avidyA ** (BSB 1-4-3),-- it
> becomes clear that in shAnkara prasthAna avidyA belongs to the realm of
> knowledge (jnAnakOti) while mAyA belongs to the realm of objects
> (jnEyakOti). Hence ** avidyA is the seed for samsAra ** needs to be
>  understood as cause for samsAra while ** avyakta is the seed for jagat **
> needs to be understood as avyakta being the upAdAna kAraNa >>. Unquote
> (Emphasis mine).
>
> Link to above
>
> <<
> http://www.adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=kannada&book_id=091&pagenum=0001#page/8/mode/1up
> >>
>
> Sri SSS has preferred to present an interpretational view of the BhAshya
> (his own interpretation) rather than the direct and explicit view (avidyA
> and mAyA are synonymous terms) stated in the BhAshya. This is in
> contravention of the generally accepted rule which calls for accepting the
> direct statements and interpreting others in line with this. Also such an
> interpretation leads to the conclusion that the Bhashya is
> selfcontradictory.
> Regards
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:32 AM Jaishankar Narayanan via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Bhaskar ji,
>>
>> This demand is because SSS prakriya followers deny any Ontological status
>> to Asat / Anrta / Mithya as defined by Bhashyakara and only talk about an
>> epistemological error by wrongly interpreting the rope-snake, shell-silver
>> analogies. If you are not able to teach using the analogies given in
>> Shruti
>> and Smriti then your prakriya is Shruti / Smriti Virodha.
>>
>> Bhasyakara uses rope-snake, shell-silver analogies only to point out the
>> AvaraNa and vikshepa shakti of ajnAna. This analogy cannot be extended to
>> say that world will vanish like snake for the jnAni. But that is what SSS
>> implies by denying jnAni's svAnubhava as a jnAni and making dvaita
>> perception itself as an error to be removed.
>>
>> This is because of a misunderstading of what is sat and asat and the
>> nature
>> of a tattvadarshi as revealed in the Gita and Upanishads. SSS fails to
>> understand jnAni is Brahman but Brahman is not a jnAni.
>>
>> Bhagavan says in BG2.16
>>
>> उभयोरपि दृष्टोऽन्तस्त्वनयोस्तत्त्वदर्शिभिः
>>
>> Bhashyakara writes
>>
>> एवम् आत्मानात्मनोः सदसतोः उभयोरपि दृष्टः उपलब्धः अन्तो निर्णयः सत् सदेव
>> असत् असदेवेति, तु अनयोः यथोक्तयोः तत्त्वदर्शिभिः ।
>>
>> Atma /sat and anAtma / asat both are seen and they both have been
>> ascertained as 'sat is sat' and 'asat is asat' by the tattvadarshis /
>> jnAnis.
>>
>> Similarly in BG 4.18
>>
>> कर्मण्यकर्म यः पश्येदकर्मणि च कर्म यः ।
>> स बुद्धिमान्मनुष्येषु स युक्तः कृत्स्नकर्मकृत् ॥
>>
>> One who sees akarma in karma and karma in akarma is a buddhimAn
>>
>> Bhagavan does not say seeing karma itself is bandha. So perception of
>> duality is not a problem but satya-anrta-mithunee-karanam is the problem
>> and viveka buddhi is to see 'sat as sat' and 'asat as asat' and akarta as
>> sat and karta as asat. This is the traditional teaching and SSS has
>> completely missed this and made dvaita more real by saying jnAni cannot
>> perceive duality leading to anirmoksha-prasanga.
>>
>> Unfortunately sincere mumukshus are caught in a trap by this prakriya and
>> are waiting lifelong for dvaita perception  to end.
>>
>> With love and prayers,
>> Jaishankar
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 1:00 PM Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since Rope-Snake / Shell-Silver is nowhere to be found in the Upanishads
>> > commented by Shankara, Gita and Brahmasutra and only clay-pot, gold-lump
>> > and iron-nail cutter is found in the Upanishad, please present your
>> reply
>> > with these instead of rope-snake analogy. I think then it will be clear
>> > what Ontology and epistemology are and how they are related to each
>> other
>> >
>> > praNAms
>> > Hare Krishna
>> >
>> > Frankly, I am unable to understand this demand.  Why this demand when
>> > bhAshyakAra himself used these (rajju-sarpa / shukti-rajata) examples in
>> > his commentaries??  Well, if at all there is drastic difference between
>> > these two analogies ( i.e. clay-pot & rope-snake) that would be, IMO,
>> > kArya-kAraNa ananyatvaM in clay-pot analogy and kAraNa-s no relation
>> with
>> > that of appearing mithyA kArya in rajju-sarpa. But need more elaboration
>> > from your side for this particular demand and what would be the
>> > consequences if we use rajju-sarpa in place of clay-pot.  But it is
>> better
>> > to keep in mind some of the traditional presenters have argued that both
>> > analogies are serving the same purpose in Advaita prakriya.
>> >
>> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>> > Bhaskar YR
>> >
>> >
>> > Since Rope-Snake / Shell-Silver is nowhere to be found in the Upanishads
>> > commented by Shankara, Gita and Brahmasutra and only clay-pot, gold-lump
>> > and iron-nail cutter is found in the Upanishad, please present your
>> reply
>> > with these instead of rope-snake analogy. I think then it will be clear
>> > what Ontology and epistemology are and how they are related to each
>> other.
>> >
>> >
>> >
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