[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Bhaskar Yr question

Ven Balakrishnan ventzu at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Apr 30 14:29:58 EDT 2023
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If the mind-body-world ia a superimposition on consciousness, and this superimposition is equated to ignorance, then the removal of ignorance must mean the cessation of the superimposition. Hence deep sleep is used as the pointer to Brahman, realisation as the dissolution of particular consciousness (like a salt doll in water) and paramahansa sannyasa as the inevitable outcome of the non-action of a jnani. 

Ramanamaharishi in Ulladu Narpadu v5:
“If we scrutinise, the body is a form of five sheaths.  Without the body, does the world exist? Is there anyone who, having given up identification with the body, has seen the world?"


> On 30 Apr 2023, at 17:24, sunil bhattacharjya via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
> Dear Shri Sreenivasa Murthy,
> 
> You wrote as follows:
> *what you have written is nothing but persons making statements*
> 
> *without knowing the genuine tradition of Upanishad sages. *
> *In the major ten upanishads you will never come across a word like that.*
> Which genuine tradition did  I violate?. Which word are you referring to in
> my writing?  Dont try to be vengeful, when you don't understand something.
> An advaitin has to understand the impermanence of the vyavaharika world,
> and for Arjun to understand this concept, Lord Krishna told this concept
> to Arjuna in the very beginning of his teaching in the original Bhagavad
> Gita,
> 
> With good wishes.
> 
> skb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 7:40 AM 'sreenivasa murthy' via advaitin <
> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Sri Sunil Bhattachariya,
>> 
>>   My refutation pertains to Your statements Viz."
>> 
>> When the Jnani learns and finally realises the imparmanence of the
>> vyavaharika world, his attachment to the vyavaharika world drastically gets
>> reduced / destroyed and eventually gets vanished, and this is best called
>> as his becoming vasanashunya and he also becoming unmindful of
>> thevyavaharika world, or in other words, he achieves Manonasha. Upanishad
>> also uses the wording as becoming manah-shunya." only.
>> What you have written is nothing but persons making statements
>> without knowing the genuine tradition of Upanishad sages.
>> In the major ten upanishads you will never come across a word like that.
>> Do you know who is a Jnani And what is his nature? Kindly refer to
>> Bhagavadgita.
>> If a jnani is manah-shunya, how is he going impart upadesha to a student?
>> If he is a manah-shunya he is no better than a vegetable or stone.
>> 
>> These misconceptions have crept into vedantic tradition
>> because of ignorance of facts and anubhava.
>> 
>> May The Indwelling Atman remove all such conceptions
>> and bless you with right knowledge.
>> 
>> With this I close the correspondence.
>> 
>> Your wellwisher,
>> Sreenivasa Murthy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, 30 April, 2023 at 10:29:45 am IST, sunil bhattacharjya <
>> skbhattacharjya at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Shri Sreenivasa Murthy,
>> 
>> Firstly, you may be a great fan of Shri J.  Krishnamurti, but not me. So
>> please don't quote him in discussions on Advaita.
>> 
>> Secondly, Please don't just make vague assertions, without being able to
>> give  any details.
>> 
>> Thirdly, one who read and understaood Lord Krishna's following statement
>> in the Bhagavatam as well as in the Mahabharata, has surely understood  the
>> concept of Advaita, and even Shri Gaudapadacharya was so influenced by this
>> verse, that he even quoted this verse in his Mandukya Karika.
>> *"If a thing is non—existent both in the beginning and in the end, it is
>> necessarily non—existent in the present. The objects that we see are really
>> like illusions; still they are regarded as real."*
>> The Reality of the Vyavaharika world is nothing but like illusion. Once
>> one understands this, one would be able to withdraw one's mind from the
>> vyavaharika world. Once one does that,  one becomes able to realize the
>> truth that there is nothing other than the Brahman.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> skb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 6:43 PM sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Sri Sunil Bhattachariya,
>> 
>> What you have written is completely erroneous.
>> 
>> It goes against the spirit of the teachings of Upanishads and Sri Shankara.
>> Kindly study and understand the mantras 6-7 and 6-8 of Prashnopanishad
>> and commentary of Sri Shankara to those mantras .
>> 
>> 
>> Sri J.Krishnamurti has made a very profound statement in one
>> of his meetings. It reads thus :Do not utter even a single word
>> which you yourself has not understood or cognized within yourself.
>> 
>> With respectful namaskars,
>> Sreenivasa Murthy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, 30 April, 2023 at 04:46:58 am IST, sunil bhattacharjya via
>> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Shri Michael Chandra Cohen,
>> 
>> When the Jnani learns and finally realises the imparmanence of the
>> vyavaharika world, his attachment to the vyavaharika world drastically gets
>> reduced / destroyed and eventually gets vanished, and this is best called
>> as his becoming vasanashunya and he also becoming unmindful of the
>> vyavaharika world, or in other words, he achieves Manonasha. Upanishad also
>> uses the wording as becoming manah-shunya.
>> 
>> Even though the such a jnani does live in the vyavaharika world till he
>> becomes videhamukta, i.e., till he leaves his body (i.e., till he leaves
>> both the shthula and the Shukshma sareeras), he is *as good as* one who
>> crossed the cycle of birth and death. The Vyavaharika world does not affect
>> him.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 10:15 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
>> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> aum and pranam Blessed Bhaskarji,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your clear response - I agree with all your points. I think
>> the
>>> difference attaches only to one's drsti. From Paramarthika there cannot
>> be
>>> sarva of any sort while from vyavaharika, appearances continue. The
>>> question then is what does the jnani himself see - does he (who is he?)
>> see
>>> and partake in the world or does he no longer see nor partake in the
>> world
>>> or does he have two views? I think SSSS would argue the middle
>> alternative
>>> -- that is what I learned from Atmanandendraji and his student, Atma
>>> Chaitanya ji, is the correct view. As there is no jnani, there can be no
>>> one to see nor anything to be seen and there are ample supportive
>>> citations. Would you agree?
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 11:46 PM 'SRINIVASAN Raghuraman' via advaitin <
>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Just the week Nobel prize goes to Advatin/Quantum
>>>> physicist...............All come off it soon now. No one knows
>>>> consciousness.
>>>> 
>>>> On 28 Apr 2023 11:23, 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <
>>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> my understanding is that savAtmabhAva is distinct from turiya or
>>>> atmaikatva vidya, i.e., all is Brahma/Atma is different from only Brahma
>>>> alone
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> praNAms Sri Chandra prabhuji
>>>> 
>>>> Hare Krishna
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> IMHO, two are not entirely different avasthA-s (states), sarvAtmabhAva
>> is
>>>> the bhuma drushti when the paramArtha jnAni still seeing the world as
>>>> brahman and not different from brahman!!.  And Atmaikatva vidyA or
>> turiya
>>>> is that jnana itself.  Realizing that he is sarvaM when he is seeing
>> sarvaM
>>>> does not mean he is not tureeya or he is not having the Atmaikatva
>> vidyA.
>>>> The person called ‘Charudatta’ is same charudatta only when he is
>> folding
>>>> his limbs or stretching his limbs ( bhAshyakAra himself gives this
>> example
>>>> somewhere).  It is because of the simple fact that jnAni knows that for
>> the
>>>> ‘sarvaM’ (jagat) brahman is the only abhinna nimittopadAna kAraNa and
>>>> brahman as kAraNa is in effect (kaarya) but in kAraNa there are no
>> effects
>>>> (kaarya), matsthAni sarvabhutaani …….na cha matsthAni bhUtAni says
>> lord.  I
>>>> am in the kaarya is sarvAtmabhAva and in me there is no transactions or
>>>> effects is the Atmaikatva or tureeya jnana where duality is denied
>> without
>>>> any trace ( neha nAnAsti kiMchana).  Such complete denial of
>> transactions
>>>> of the avasthAtraya is what is implied in tureeya / Atmaikatva darshana.
>>>> IMO, this is nirvishesha svarUpa jnana and this is also sarvAtmabhAva,
>> how
>>>> so!!??  Because though there seems transactions in sarvAtmabhAva (like
>>>> ‘sarvaM’ (prameya) and I am (pramAtru) is the ONE in ALL etc.)  there is
>>>> really no transaction at all in this paramArtha jnAni.  His jnana is
>> intact
>>>> in both Atmaikatva jnana and sarvAtmabhAva.  It is because of that
>> reason
>>>> bhAshyakAra says sarvAtmabhAva is mOksha because in that bhAva there is
>>>> absolute absence of kriya, kAraka and phalam.  Shruti itself says that
>> he
>>>> who understands himself as brahman will become all this  ya evaM veda
>> ahaM
>>>> brahmAsmeeti sa idam sarvaM bhavati.  If that is not the case then we
>> are
>>>> forced to accept tureeya or the Atmaikatva darshana is possible only in
>> a
>>>> particular state called tureeyaavasthA ( A forth state of Atman and as
>> per
>>>> some, it can be achieved ONLY in the state of nirvikalpa samAdhi since
>> in
>>>> this state only mind is inert and there is complete absence of external
>>>> world !!)  and sarvaatmabhAva which is a different state in which sarvaM
>>>> implies ‘difference’ and is Atman or me implies abedha hence it is
>>>> something inferior to tureeya state!!  As you know, this conclusion is
>>>> untenable in shankara’s Advaita vedAnta.  In short, mOkshAvastha is not
>>>> vyavahaara shUnya but it is vyavahAra badhita Atma svarUpa jnana.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>> 
>>>> bhaskar
>>>> 
>>>> --
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB658116BE884EB2709B38D4DC846B9%40AM7PR06MB6581.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com
>>>> <
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB658116BE884EB2709B38D4DC846B9%40AM7PR06MB6581.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>>> 
>>>> .
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>>>> .
>>>> 
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