[Advaita-l] Gaudapada and Shankara hold the waking objects to be mithya

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
Hare Krishna


  *   Just a follow up clarification requested in this mail since I think this would help me to understand concepts like mUlAvidyA, avidyAlesha and prArabdha karma.

In the case of sopAdhika bhrama, avidyA is destroyed, but the upAdhi persists and until then, the appearance of the superimposed persists.

> In sOpAdhika bhrama darshana ( like mirage water or can we include sun rise and set also!!??) the appearance of the adhyAropita continue because of the upAdhi but not due to avidyA.  So what is the bhrama part here ??
If one thinks the mirage is water that is bhrama. If one knows it is not a mirage it is not bhrama. The avidyA that is the cause for the former is destroyed with samyakjnAna. The anuvRtti of pratIti is because of anuvRtti of the upAdhi and will continue for so long as the upAdhi is there.


Ø     The anuvrutti of prateeti because of anuvrutti of upAdhi is not avidyA nor bhrama because jnAni though seeing water he does not think it is ‘water’, so what exactly this cognition of ‘water’ is called when this cognition is neither bhrama nor avidyA.  I agree that for him the bhrama part is not there even though he is seeing the water, but my question pertains to ‘seeing the water’ i.e. anuvrutti of prateeti due to continuation of upAdhi.

whether it is avidyA or darshana because jnAni still having the upAdhi saMbandha??

There is no avidyA for jnAni because of samyakjnAna, but there is the continued presence of samskAra rUpa ajnAna (avidyAlesha) which is the cause for the continuation of the appearance of the world to him.


  *   In your previous mail to Sri Sudhanshu prabhuji you had said :
  *   //quote// the perception of the superimposed is not because of some remnant of avidyA remaining post sublation, but because of the presence of an externality, an upAdhi, which is the cause for the continue perception of the superimposed - even when ignorance has been sublated.//unquote//
  *   Here you are saying there is no remnant to avidyA (avidyAlesha) but above you are saying there is the continues presence of saMskAra rUpa ajnAna (specifically saying it is avidyAlesha.  Kindly clarify why this contradiction??  Can we say in the jnAni SamyakjnAna and saMskAra rUpa ajnAna go hand in hand ??  And I am not clear about the difference between saMskAra rUpa avidyA lesha which you are accepting and remnant of avidyA which you are denying in post jnana period.

And can we say upAdhi saMbandha of the jnAni through which he will continue to have sOpAdhika bhrama and perceives the ahdhyArOpita vastu sans any sort of avidyA??
Yes.

  *   And surprisingly you are saying ‘yes’ here to the absence of ‘any sort of avidyA’, please clarify whether saMskArarUpa avidyA (avidyAlesha) which you are accepting  is not within the scope of ‘any sort of avidyA??

  If yes, there must be some clear difference between avidyA drushti (misconception) and sOpAdhika bhrama due to upAdhi sambandha, is it not??  Or am I missing something??
Yes, the jnAni's anubhava and ajnAni's anubhava of the same world is indicative of the difference. The jnAni is untouched by the problems of the world, the ajnAni is totally caught up in them.


Ø     Going by the above example, jnAni though seeing the ‘water’ does not go there to quench his thirst as he know there is no water, but ajnAni seeing the water go there to drink it.

So, the perception of the superimposed is not because of some remnant of avidyA remaining post sublation, but because of the presence of an externality, an upAdhi, which is the cause for the continue perception of the superimposed - even when ignorance has been sublated.

>  So from the above observation,  avidyA lesha in the paramArtha jnAni too negated by saying it is because of the PRESENCE of an externality, upAdhi.  So what exactly is avidyAlesha if it is NOT what you explained above??

avidyAlesha is that upAdhi which continues in jIvanmukti.


Ø     How the continuation of upAdhi in Jeevanmukta is avidyAlesha??  Can we equate avidyAlesha here with prArabdha karma??  And because all sashareeratvaM is due to karma janita phala.  If for the continuation of anuvrutti of upAdhi and as a result anuvrutti of prateeti avidyAlesha is the kAraNa, what is the role of prArabdha karma here??


>  I could see  subtle difference between Jeevan mukti of the jnAni  and videhakaivalya ( Videha mukti) of the jnAni here.  Do you mean here to have the clear crystal the upAdhi is the obstacle or perception of red crystal is due to presence of upAdhi??
Yes.


Ø     By saying yes you are also implying there exists avidyAlesh in jeevanmukta hence anuvrutti of prateeti and his saMbandha with anuvrutti of upAdhi continues so in a sense though he is having the absolute clear knowledge about colourless crystal he would continue to ‘see’ red crystal and he would have the cognition of clear crystal ONLY after his physical death i.e. after complete stoppage of anuvrutti of upAdhi.  So equation of jnAni status when he embodied and unembodied will be like this :

Ø    (a) sashareeri jnAni-jnAnimAtra with regard to Atman (clear crystal) but he would continue to see conditioned jagat (red crystal)

Ø    (b) Videha mukta-paripUrNa jnAni with regard to Atman as there is no obstacle for him like upAdhi so that he would see crystal ‘as it is’.


  *   Am I correct with this conclusion prabhuji??


Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar