[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Reg  //  In the Vedanta Paribhasha, the adhyasta vastu is stated to be
'produced' at that time of the adhyasa:

ननु विसंवादिप्रवृत्त्या भ्रान्तिज्ञानसिद्धावपि तस्य
* प्रातिभासिकतत्कालोत्पन्नरजतादि*विषयकत्वे

घटवति घटाभाव*भ्रमो* न *तत्कालोत्पन्न*घटाभावविषयकः

अवगमेऽपरोक्षावभासस्य *तत्कालीनविषयसत्तानियतत्वाद् रजते
पारमार्थिकत्वमप्यनिर्वचनीयं रजतवदेवोत्पन्नमिति* तदवच्छिन्नरजतसत्त्वे //,

This is just what I have also stated. Rope-snake being **Imagined ** does
not involve origination or production of a vastu namely **snake**. Its
ontological status is certainly not the same as that of Creation by Iswara.
But surely **production ** of a vastu in adhyAsa does involve vesting that
vastu with a certain level of ontological status, by definition. Its
ontological status is stated to be prAtibhAsika while Creation by Iswara
has the ontological status of vyAvahArika.

Regards




On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 10:41 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In the Vedanta Paribhasha, the adhyasta vastu is stated to be 'produced'
> at that time of the adhyasa:
>
> ननु विसंवादिप्रवृत्त्या भ्रान्तिज्ञानसिद्धावपि तस्य*
> प्रातिभासिकतत्कालोत्पन्नरजतादि*विषयकत्वे
>
> घटवति घटाभाव*भ्रमो* न *तत्कालोत्पन्न*घटाभावविषयकः
>
> अवगमेऽपरोक्षावभासस्य *तत्कालीनविषयसत्तानियतत्वाद् रजते
> पारमार्थिकत्वमप्यनिर्वचनीयं रजतवदेवोत्पन्नमिति* तदवच्छिन्नरजतसत्त्वे
>
> This 'producing' 'at that time of adhyasa/bhrama/ajnana, is not the same
> of creation by Ishwara in the manner of Atma > Akasha >  Vayu..etc.  Hence,
> the kalpana/kalpita of sarpa in rajju is not being created in the
> ontological sense. This sarpa creation is having ajnana as upAdaana and it
> is anAd and anirvAchya.  Even when Brahman is said to be the kAraNam, the
> upAdAna stated here is ajnAnam and this ajnAnam is not of Brahman but that
> of the jiva-s.  That is a shakti of Brahman, also called mAyA, prakriti,
> etc.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 5:58 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> परिकल्पित or कल्पित etc also have the meaning *created*. Not necessarily
>> *imagined*. It is in this sense Bhashya needs to be understood in the
>> current context.
>>
>> Reg Swami Sureswaracharya vArtika cited //  तदुक्तं सुरेश्वराचार्यैः- "
>> अक्षमा भवतः केयं साधकत्वप्रकल्पने । किं न पश्यसि संसारं
>> तत्रैवाज्ञानकल्पितम् ॥ //,
>>
>> अज्ञानकल्पितम् should be understood as *created with ajnAna as upAdAna
>> kAraNam*. This is clear by the following vArtika verse BUBV 1-4-371
>>
>> // अस्य द्वैतेन्द्रजालस्य यदुपादानकारणम् ।
>>
>> अज्ञानं  तदुपाश्रित्य ब्रह्म कारणमुच्यते ॥ //
>>
>> // asya dvaitendrajAlasya yadupAdAnakAraNam |
>>
>> aj~nAnaM  tadupAshritya brahma kAraNamuchyate || //
>>
>> There are any number of verses in the vArtika which reflect the same
>> understanding.
>>
>> Same with Vedanta Paribhasha.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>>