[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Srinath ji.

//Waking state is superior and certainly there are valid reasons to
attribute a higher reality to the waking, To list few;

1. The very pramANa you are invoking to prove your point, such as MANDUkya,
AItareya etc. shrutis, which do exist only in the waking state! Your own
pramANas disproves you and proves otherwise! Waking  state is indeed
superior!

2.   You allude to abAdhita-artha of 2+2=4 in dreams. But such
abAdhitatva comes only because 2=2=4 is valid in waking to begin with.
Other way is not the case. Vision seen in dreams such as you becoming the
King does not have any abAdhitatva in waking. Hence, yathAartha jnyAna (not
just artha as you hold) in waking state determines abAdhitatva of all artha
in dreams. Not the other way. Hence the waking state is indeed superior!

3.  Dream state is pervaded by the waking state. Dreaming is indeed an
event in waking reality with specific kAla-dEsha. Its creations are
dependent on vasana of waking state. Dream is finally brought to a stop by
the reality of the waking state, such as alarm ringing etc. It is not
otherway, you cannot go into (or wake up to) dream by a dream alarm. This
asymmetry proves waking and dreaming are not the same. Hence the waking
state is indeed superior!//

How do you know that the state which you refer to as waking is not a dream?
You state that waking is superior to dream. But to determine that what you
think as waking is not a dream. In dream also, you thoght that to be waking.

Let us first understand this.

1. In dream also, Shruti were there and relied upon as pramANa.

2. Untenable as the non-dream-hood of waking is still to be proved.

3. Same as 2. Both 2 and 3 were used by you in your dream to aver the
non-dream-hood of your dream. Proves nothing.

Regards.


On Wed, 20 Dec 2023, 09:21 Srinath Vedagarbha, <svedagarbha at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Namaste,
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 7:28 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> What is this "waking up" to higher truth. Dream and waking are identical
>> is
>> proved by logic. MANDUkya does that. AItareya proclaims that. Even without
>> realizing that, the logical conclusion is for one and all -- there is no
>> difference between waking and dream. Not even a bit of difference.
>>
>>
> Your argument is not logical.
>
> Waking state is superior and certainly there are valid reasons to
> attribute a higher reality to the waking, To list few;
>
> 1. The very pramANa you are invoking to prove your point, such as
> MANDUkya, AItareya etc. shrutis, which do exist only in the waking state!
> Your own pramANas disproves you and proves otherwise! Waking  state is
> indeed superior!
>
> 2.   You allude to abAdhita-artha of 2+2=4 in dreams. But such
> abAdhitatva comes only because 2=2=4 is valid in waking to begin with.
> Other way is not the case. Vision seen in dreams such as you becoming the
> King does not have any abAdhitatva in waking. Hence, yathAartha jnyAna
> (not just artha as you hold) in waking state determines abAdhitatva of all
> artha in dreams. Not the other way. Hence the waking state is indeed
> superior!
>
> 3.  Dream state is pervaded by the waking state. Dreaming is indeed an
> event in waking reality with specific kAla-dEsha. Its creations are
> dependent on vasana of waking state. Dream is finally brought to a stop by
> the reality of the waking state, such as alarm ringing etc. It is not
> otherway, you cannot go into (or wake up to) dream by a dream alarm. This
> asymmetry proves waking and dreaming are not the same. Hence the waking
> state is indeed superior!
>
> Regards
> /SV
>
>
>
>