[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Srinath ji.

The basic question remains. How can one know that he is not dreaming right
now. How can he be sure that it is not a dream within dream within dream ad
infinitum.

Let us be very clear. There is no means to know that we are not dreaming
right now.

And this is a sufficient reason to conclude that one can not posit anything
which is non-dream. Even sushupti also becomes dream just as the sushupti
within dream was nothing but dream.

ShAstra is part of dream. Just as it was part of dream within dream within
dream. So, neither Madhva nor Shankara nor Rigveda nor BrihadAraNyaka nor
BhAgavata PurANa can help us in any manner in this respect. In other
aspects, what and of how much use they are, we can discuss some other time.

Regards.



On Fri, 22 Dec 2023, 22:05 Srinath Vedagarbha, <svedagarbha at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 10:13 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> We know from this saying of the Bhagavatam: The world is akin to dream,
>> not
>> real like the proverbial castle in the air. This premise stated by Veda
>> Vyasa in the Bhagavatam is accepted with no compromise only in Advaita.
>> This premise is contradictory to the doctrinal beliefs of other schools.
>>
>>
> Well, for others it is very crystal clear whenever shAstra equates waking
> with dream state.
>
> Sri. MadhwaAcharya quotes paramOpanishad in His VTVN work on this subject;
>
> "anitva vikAritva pAratantraAdi rUpataH |
> svapnAdi sAMyam jagatO, na tu bhOdha nirvatyAtA |
> sarvajnasya yatO vishNuH  sarva dvaita pratIyatE |
> bhOdhAsahaM tato naitat kMtvAjnAvashamasya hi"  -- iti paramOpanishadi
>
> (Wherever this world is said to be akin to dream in shAstras, it has to be
> understood not as mithya. It is said so because both are similar in sense
> of their anityatva, vikAritva and pAratantryatva. When this dvaita jagat is
> in Vishnu's knowledge (pratIti) and since He is sarvajna, how can His
> knowledge be brAnti and how can this jagt be mithya? This jagat is not
> sublatable by knowledge. It is real and under His controllership.)
>
> In many places Upanishad talk about nature of swapna avastha. To quote
> some;
>
> 1. Br. Upa -- swapnEna shArIramabhi prahatyAsuptaH suptAnabhi chAkaShIti,
> shukramAdAya punarEti stAnam hiraNmayaH puruShaH Eka-haMsaH
>
> 2. In another instance the same Br.U clearly says Deva creates vaasanamaya
> swapna padArthas by taking various small & large forms, sports with sthree
> forms and sees jIva-s in scariest objects of dream.
> "swapnAnta uchAvachamIyamAnO rupANi dEvaH kurutE bahUni, utEva steebhiH
> saha mOdamAnO jakshadutEvApi *bhayAni pashyan*"
>
> 3. The same theme is asserted when Upa. Says "na tatra ratha-yOgA na
> panthAnO bhavanti, atha rathAn rathayOgAn pathaH srujatE, ?? sa hI kartha
> "  (in swapna, initially there will not be chariots, nor paths. Swapna
> kartha Brahman creates the chariots, paths etc for the jIva)
>
> 4. Same Brahman Who creates the swapnAdi avsta-s controlls those very
> avasta-traya states of the jIva.
>
> 5. In another instance says "sa vA Esha Etasmin swapnAntE ratvAcharitvA
> driStAiva puNyam pApam cha punaH pratinyAyam pratiyOnyA dravati
> budhAntAaiva" etc...
> (Only this Isha moves jIva between swana and shuspti avastas, witnessing
> jIva's puNya and paapa, again bringing him to jaagrata avasta)
>
> /SV
>
>