[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Just a clarification.

// though in reality they are all सत्(sat) only // in the last sentence to
be understood in the vivarta sense.

Regards

On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 3:06 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Venkat Ji,
>
> Reg  // buddhyA parikalpitena rather than buddhau parikalpitena //,
>
> They need not be understood as being mutually exclusive. buddhyA
> parikalpitena can be understood as the manifestation of deep rooted
> conviction *in* the mind, buddhau parikalpitena. In fact, deep rooted
> conviction *in* the mind, buddhau parikalpitena,  would be more
> appropriate in the current context, it being svAbhAvika, naisargika.
>
> Reg  // That is why Shankaracharya mentions the mRtghaTa and the
> rajjusarpa examples in the same sentence (because there is something
> additional he wishes to convey with the second example) //,
>
> Notice the use of the word आदि(Adi)(etcetera) in  रज्ज्वादि सर्पाद्याकारेण
> in respect of vivarta vikAra as against मृद्घटाद्याकारेण in respect of
> pariNAma vikAra. It is used in respect of both रज्जु (rajju) and सर्प(sarpa)
> in one while it is used only in respect of घट(ghata) but not in respect
> of मृत् (mRRit) in the other.  Multiplicity is seen simultaneously in the
> case of  mRtghaTAdi (such as pot, lump etc), and hence difference between
> them can be  perceived by the mind. But multiplicity is not seen
> simulataneously if only the standard rajjusarpa illustration is considered
> for vivarta vikAra even if आदि(Adi)(etcetera) word is used in respect of
> sarpa. Rope is perceived either as snake or as garland or as stick or as
> crack in the wall, only one at a time. Difference cannot be perceived.
> Hence रज्ज्वादि  in रज्ज्वादि सर्पाद्याकारेण  is intended to be the
> equivalent for घटादि of मृद्घटाद्याकारेण. रज्ज्वादि represents all
> objects simultaneously perceived at any given time, all of which are
> vivarta vikAra. सर्पाद्याकारेण is to convey vivarta vikAra. They are all
> conceived as different from each other by the mind though in reality they
> are all सत्(sat) only. That in my understanding is what Sri Bhagavatpada
> intends to convey by mentioning  the mRtghaTa and the rajjusarpa examples
> in the same sentence.
>
> Regards
>
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 10:33 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Chandramouli ji,
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Dec 2023, 01:46 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In my understanding, the phrase buddhiparikalpitena does not apply to
>>> snake per se. It refers to bheda buddhi amongst different forms the
>>> appearance could take place instead of the rope (vivarta as in
>>> सर्पाद्याकारेण illustration), namely snake, stick, garland, crack on
>>> the ground etc. In case of clay (pariNAma as in मृद्घटाद्याकारेण
>>> illustration), the forms could be pot, lump of clay etc. While all of them
>>> are rope (or clay) only, buddhi distinguishes them as different entities.
>>> This bheda buddhi amongst the forms instead of unity is addressed by the
>>> phrase buddhiparikalpitena.
>>>
>> I think the above explanation is also possible. Even so, in the above
>> explanation, the focus of the meaning of the phrase lies in the bheda
>> buddhi being buddhyA parikalpitena rather than buddhau parikalpitena -
>> Shankaracharya wishes to convey that they are viewed as different *by*
>> the mind - there is no reason to take away from that phrase that these are
>> viewed differently *in* the mind.
>>
>> In my explanation, the meaning of the phrase buddhiparikalpitena, is
>> slightly different when there is anvaya with mRtghaTa than when there is
>> anvaya with rajjusarpa, because they represent two types of bheda buddhi
>> with respect to multiplicity. That is why Shankaracharya mentions the
>> mRtghaTa and the rajjusarpa examples in the same sentence (because there is
>> something additional he wishes to convey with the second example).
>>
>> To explain, the former represents the bheda buddhi between the kArya and
>> kAraNa and the latter represents the bheda buddhi of the adhyasta with
>> respect to the adhiShThAna. In the former, the anvaya of the mRt happens
>> during the perception of the ghaTa (ie one continues to see the clay when
>> seeing the pot, leading to the buddhi mRt-ghaTa) and in the latter, one
>> only sees the sarpa and not the rajju during the time of the adhyAsa (ie no
>> one sees it as rajju-sarpa, one sees it only as sarpa). In both cases,  the
>> bahutva is buddhyA parikalpitena - the multiplicity is seen by the mind and
>> not a truth in reality.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>