[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Venkataraghavan ji.

//There is a passage in the Vedanta Paribhasha which says that the creation
of a prAtibhAsika object is only admitted in certain circumstances.

यत्रारोप्यमसन्निकृष्टं तत्रैव प्रातिभासिकवस्तूत्पत्तेरङ्गीकारात् । Where
the Aropya, the superimposed object is not in contact with senses,only
there is it accepted that a prAtibhAsika object is created.
i.e where there is contact with the superimposed, we accept that there is
no anirvachanIya object created. Where it is not in contact, we accept
there is an anirvachanIya object created.

अत एव इन्द्रियसन्निकृष्टतया जपाकुसुमगतलौहित्यस्य स्फटिके भानसम्भवात्  न
स्फटिकेऽनिर्वचनीयलौहित्योत्पत्तिः । That is why, as there is contact with
the senses in the case of the red crystal, it is possible for the redness
present in the hibiscus to appear in the crystal, and the creation of an
anirvachanIya redness in the crystal is not accepted.//

Isn't this conclusion of VedAnta ParibhAshA in contradiction with siddhAnta
as propounded inAdvaita SIddhi wherein the redness-of-crystal is accepted
to be mithyA (and not laukika-pAramArtika) following VivaraNa.

Advaita Siddhi says -

न च लौहित्यं स्फटिके न मिथ्या, किंतु धर्ममात्रप्रतिबिम्ब इति न
पृथगुदाहरणमिति वाच्यम् । धर्मिभूतमुखादिनैरपेक्ष्येण
तद्धर्मभूतरूपादिप्रतिबिम्बादर्शनात् , प्रतिबिम्बस्याव्याप्यवृत्तित्वनियमेन
लौहित्यस्य स्फटिके व्याप्यवृत्तिप्रतीत्ययोगाच्च । लौहित्ये स्फटिकस्य
त्वारोपे तस्य प्रतिबिम्बत्वम् , स्फटिके लौहित्यारोपे तु तस्य मिथ्यात्वमिति
विवेकः ।

Redness-of-crystal is not pratibimba of redness-of-flower as pratibimba
situates always as avyApya-vritti i.e. localized in a particular place
within upAdhi. And that is not how redness-of-crystal situates. It pervades
entire crystal as vyApya-vritti. Thus, redness-of-crystal is not
pratibimba, which is as satya (laukika pAramArtika) as bimba.

Redness-of-crystal is rather AbhAsa and is therefore mithyA.

Now, this logic has no connection as to whether red-flower is in contact
with eyes or not. The redness-of-crystal is pervaded and hence it is AbhAsa
and is hence mithyA. It could have been averred as redness-of-flower if it
were to be a pratibimba.

The redness-of-crystal is mithyA i.e. anirvachanIya whereas
redness-of-flower is laukika pAramArtika. Had the redness-of-crystal been
redness-of-crystal as suggested by VP, the redness-of-crystal could never
have been averred by both AS and VivaraNa as mithyA.

PanchapAdikA says- तेन अन्तःकरणोपरागनिमित्तं मिथ्यैवाहङ्कर्तृत्वमात्मनः,
स्फटिकमणेरिवोपधाननिमित्तो लोहितिमा ॥
VivaraNa says - मिथ्यात्वं स्फटिकलौहित्यस्य क्लृप्तप्रतीतिसत्तयोः
कारणाभावात् .

This point is well-explained in the commentary on VedAnta ParibhAshA by
Panchanana Bhattacharya Shastri.

Also, in Advaita Siddhi, while explaining that pratibimba does not require
the reflecting medium to be of same ontological status, the example is
given of pratibimba of redness-of-crystal in a vyAvahArika mirror. AchArya
says - the mirror is vyAvahArika but the redness-of-crystal is prAtibhAsika
and yet there is a reflection of redness-of-crystal. Hence, equal
ontonlogical level is not required. (So, there can be pratibimba of Brahman
even if the reflecting medium is of different level of reality). This
illustration also implies that redness-of-crystal is not
laukika-pAramArtika but prAtibhAsika, anirvachanIya and mithyA.

यत्तूक्तं मरीचिकाजले सूर्यप्रतिबिम्बादर्शनात् बिम्बसमानसत्ताकत्वं
प्रतिबिम्बोद्ग्राहित्वे प्रयोजकमिति । तन्न; अध्यस्तस्य स्फटिकलौहित्यस्य
दर्पणे प्रतिबिम्बदर्शनात् ।

Therefore, we need to accept that irrespective of the fact as to whether
there is contact of eyes with red-flower or not, the redness-of-crystal is
mithyA and anirvachanIya only.



On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:07 AM Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> I am really sorry to say some statements ldrafted out of dry tarka (dry
> logic) would definitely give lot of pain to parAbhakti sAdhaka-s in Advaita
> mArga !! Our prayers/Tapasya/dhyAna/ archana etc. is just to see what is
> there in our jnAnAdhyAsa !!??   IshwarAnugraha, his kAruNya, his blessings
> etc. just pouring out of that mere jnAnAdhyAsa??  Where we are the
> advaitins going??  who follow the great tradition of great Krishna bhakta
> Sri Madhusudana Saraswati??  We are forgetting the simple fact that even to
> think on these lines (jnAnAdhyAsa, arthAdhyAsa etc. within the scope of
> Advaita) we need the Ishwara kAruNya and the jnana we obtain from this
> jignAsa is IshwarAnugraha.  Ishwaraanugraha hetukenaiva cha vijnAnena
> mOksha siddhiH bhavituM arhati says bhAshyakAra.  IMHO, one simple thing we
> should always keep in mind that we the advaitins are not mere dry logicians
> (dry philosophers/ tarkikaa-s ) but we are followers of saNta/saints like
> shankara bhagavatpAda.
>
> No intention of hurting anyone's sentiments here, just my observation.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
>
> Yes ji
> The genuine case of upAsya devatA pratyaxa could possibly be classified as
> jnAnAdhyAsa without arthAdhyAsa. And we could argue that such experiences
> are not categorizable as purely sAxI pratyaxa like icchA, dveSha etc
> because their (ie upAsya devatA's)  locus is perceived as being outside
> oneself.
>
> Again these experiences of genuine devatA pratyaxa do not suffer bAdha
> unlike schizophrenia etc which might produce similar experiences which are
> recognised as delusional, upon taking appropriate medicines.
>
> Regarding the sopAdhika bhrama (like a crystal appearing yellow due to the
> flower kept next to it), it was pointed out by Venkataraghavan ji (in
> agreement with Chandramouliji as per older discussion ) that it's an
> example of jnAnAdhyAsa without arthAdhyAsa.
>
>
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > visual or auditory hallucination (of the type that's
> > > > unconstitutional
> > as
> > > in
> > > > schizophrenia a la "The Beautiful Mind" for example)?
> > > >
> > > I can't say for sure because I don't know how auditory hallucination
> > > or schizophrenia manifest, but to the extent that there is
> > > perception
> > involved
> > > (even illusory) and the object of perception is not present, one can
> > assume
> > > the creation of an illusory object.
> > >
> >
> > Venkat ji,
> >
> > This prompts me to say that the situation where  a sagunopasaka
> > getting the upasya devata sakshatkara to be of this nature.  This is
> > private to him and also it disappears in time.  Of course there is no
> > bAdhaka jnanam here as this is not a case of atasmin tad buddhih. Yet
> > the darshanam/perception is had by him for a brief period. It is a
> > result of his long practice of the upasana where the samskaras
> > generated by the upasana solidify and the devata appears before him.
> >
> > regards
> > subbu
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Venkatraghavan
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