[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] rope has some problem in rope snake analogy :-)

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Raghav ji,

This is not what I had in mind. To clarify what I wanted to say, in the
case of the upAsya devatA mUrti appearing to the upAsaka, it is not jnAna
alone in the absence of artha. Ishvara does take on the form of the upAsya
devatA as a result of the upAsana phala. The perception actually takes
place in this case, the artha is not physically present, so it must be
admitted that an artha is created.

As I had said, to the extent that there is perception involved and the
object of perception is not present, one can assume the creation of the
illusory object. The upAsya devatA's body is a mAyika sharIra created on
the spot so that the upAsaka has the perception of his upAsya. There is a
vision and the object of the vision.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan



On Thu, 28 Dec 2023, 19:49 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Yes ji
> The genuine case of upAsya devatA pratyaxa could possibly be classified as
> jnAnAdhyAsa without arthAdhyAsa. And we could argue that such experiences
> are not categorizable as purely sAxI pratyaxa like icchA, dveSha etc
> because their (ie upAsya devatA's)  locus is perceived as being outside
> oneself.
>
> Again these experiences of genuine devatA pratyaxa do not suffer bAdha
> unlike schizophrenia etc which might produce similar experiences which are
> recognised as delusional, upon taking appropriate medicines.
>
> Regarding the sopAdhika bhrama (like a crystal appearing yellow due to the
> flower kept next to it), it was pointed out by Venkataraghavan ji (in
> agreement with Chandramouliji as per older discussion ) that it's an
> example of jnAnAdhyAsa without arthAdhyAsa.
>
>
> Om
>
> On Thu, 28 Dec, 2023, 10:54 pm V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 7:42 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Raghav ji,
> > >
> > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023, 05:13 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > visual or auditory hallucination (of the type that's unconstitutional
> > as
> > > in
> > > > schizophrenia a la "The Beautiful Mind" for example)?
> > > >
> > > I can't say for sure because I don't know how auditory hallucination or
> > > schizophrenia manifest, but to the extent that there is perception
> > involved
> > > (even illusory) and the object of perception is not present, one can
> > assume
> > > the creation of an illusory object.
> > >
> >
> > Venkat ji,
> >
> > This prompts me to say that the situation where  a sagunopasaka getting
> the
> > upasya devata sakshatkara to be of this nature.  This is private to him
> and
> > also it disappears in time.  Of course there is no bAdhaka jnanam here as
> > this is not a case of atasmin tad buddhih. Yet the darshanam/perception
> is
> > had by him for a brief period. It is a result of his long practice of the
> > upasana where the samskaras generated by the upasana solidify and the
> > devata appears before him.
> >
> > regards
> > subbu
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Venkatraghavan
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