[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

 Reg  <<  अवगतिरेव गतिः - Understanding alone is the only way>>

Katha Up 1-3-12  <<  सर्वस्य प्रत्यगात्मत्वादवगतिरेव गतिरित्युपचर्यते । >>

Yes. But sAdhana is prescribed by the Shruti only, for  ** Understanding
**.

To  **Attain or Realize ** the  ** Siddha Vastu **,  impediments need to be
overcome. By prescribed sAdhanAs. Yes. All in the ajnAna dasha only.

Regards

On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 3:26 PM Ganesh B <ganesh.bala82 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste
>
> If we go deeper and even deeper, we will see that there is no
> Sadhya-Sadhaka Bhava also. The final beatitude is not a Sadhya Vastu at all.
>
> Even the effort - the Sadhana is also for Chitta Shuddhyartham only. This
> Sadhana also is due to Avidya only - Jiva Bhavam. The effort made to reach
> the final Beatitude is also part of the Ajnana because, according to
> Advaita Siddhanta Atma is Nithya Labdha - ever attained.
>
> Infact some acharyas even don't admit a process of "Realisation" or
> "Attainment" for there is nothing to attain or realise.
>
> So Shankara said somewhere in some Bhashya - अवगतिरेव गतिः - Understanding
> alone is the only way.
>
> So he sang, in his Brahmajnanavalimala -
>
> सकृच्छ्रवणमात्रेण ब्रह्मज्ञानं यतो भवेत्।
> ब्रह्मज्ञानावलीमाला सर्वेषां मोक्षसिद्धये ॥
>
> "*That from which the knowledge of Brahman may be obtained by listening
> just one time, (this) Brahma Jananavali Mala (is being composed), for the
> accomplishment of the everyone’s liberation.*" (Translation - internet
> source).
>
> ********
>
> Muruganar had seen devotees come before Bhagavan who were distraught and
> who shed tears about their life. They would sit before Bhagavan, morose in
> their grief, hoping Bhagavan might relieve their distress. The poet
> addressed them in a verse: *‘You are like ones digging a well on the bank
> of the Ganga crying out in thirst.’*
>
> Then, in the following line, he corrected himself: *‘No, you are like
> ones neck deep in the Ganga crying out in thirst’.*
>
> When Muruganar showed the verse to *Bhagavan, Bhagavan said, ‘You forgot
> one further correction: “It is not that you are neck deep in the Ganga,
> rather, you are GANGA HERSELF, crying out in thirst.”’    *
>
> Upon hearing and understanding the implication of these words from the
> Master, anyone in the hall suffering anguish at that moment would have
> found their difficulty dramatically diminished.
>
> Namaskarams
>
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023, 14:54 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> Can it be said sAdhana does not form part of Advaita Siddhanta? That
>> would be taking a very narrow perspective of the Siddhanta as a whole.
>> Surely it can be said that the Final Conclusion of the Siddhanta is
>> Jiva-Brahma-Aikyatvam. However sAdhana does not fall outside the scope of
>> the  Advaita Siddhanta. If it were to be held so, then it would also be no
>> better than a postulate without conclusive proof. But Advaita Siddhanta has
>> it that the conclusion can and is realizable here and now, in this life
>> itself.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 2:36 PM Ganesh B <ganesh.bala82 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste
>>>
>>> When we say Advaita Siddhanta, it is absolutely Jiva-Brahma-Aikyatvam.
>>> There is absolute Abheda. "वाचारम्भणं विकारो नामधेयं मृत्तिकेत्येव सत्यम्"
>>>
>>> Anything prior to the realisation of this truth everything is bheda and
>>> doesn't come under the scope of Advaita Siddhanta. These Bheda is also only
>>> due to Ajnana.
>>>
>>> Those who engage perfectly according to the injunctions of Shastras are
>>> also only perpetuating Samsara.
>>>
>>> The Dharma Shastras are also prescribed here only here and it is also
>>> limited just here - "*अथातो धर्मजिज्ञासा*" ane Bheda is definitely
>>> admitted here. And this bheda is due to Avidya.
>>>
>>> स्वधर्मे प्रवृत्तानामपि तेषां वाङ्मनःकायादीनां प्रवृत्तिः
>>> फलाभिसन्धिपूर्विकैव साहङ्कारा च भवति । तत्रैवं सति धर्माधर्मोपचयात्
>>> इष्टानिष्टजन्मसुखदुःख़ादिप्राप्तिलक्षणः संसारः अनुपरतो भवति ।
>>>
>>> "*Even when they live according to the proper law of their life
>>> (svadharma), the activities of their speech, mind and body are surely
>>> impelled by their desire for the fruits of those very activities which
>>> emanate from egoism. In these circumstances, owing to an accumulation of
>>> righteousness and unrighteousness, transmigratory life continues unabated.*"
>>> ~ (Shankara Bhashya Gita)
>>>
>>> Unless and untill there is a dawn of Jnana, there is only Bheda due to
>>> Avidya ~ अथातो ब्रह्मजिज्ञासा where all Bheda begin to cease.
>>>
>>> सर्वकर्मसंन्यासपूर्वकादात्मज्ञानात् नान्यतो निवृत्ति।
>>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023, 13:58 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Venkat Ji,
>>>>
>>>> Extending the discussion, just for enjoying the Advaita Siddhanta. Who
>>>> knows, it may throwup  some interesting and important ideas.
>>>>
>>>> If tAratamyatA is considered in its aspect of phala, then Advaita
>>>>  Siddhanta certainly  does  admit of tAratamyatA between one form of
>>>> Ishvara and the other. Would it be wrong to say so?
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:43 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
>>>>> There is bheda accepted in shAstra vyavahAra in advaita. Each devatA
>>>>> has His or Her own pUja, japa, mantra vidhi, etc which cannot be mixed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> What Advaita does not admit is tAratamyatA between one form of Ishvara
>>>>> and the other. That is not tantamount to acceptance of abheda in vyavahAra.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone espoused such a view for you to question it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 04:55 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
>>>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> praNAms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hare Krishna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you agree dvaita in vyavahAra why not agree bedha in devata in
>>>>>> shAstric vyavahAra ??  I humbly ask my fellow advaitins.  Yes in paramArtha
>>>>>> when there is no bedha even jeeva and brahma no question of bedha
>>>>>> whatsoever.  But when we are dealing with vyAkruta jagat in vyavahAra where
>>>>>> upAdhi visheshaNa holds sway why and what is the necessity to think all
>>>>>> devata-s are one!!??  If that is the case even in vyavahAra also why only
>>>>>> abedha among ONLY devata-s why not abedha between jeeva and Ishwara!!??.
>>>>>> But in vyavahAra we the tiny jeeva-s would strive to get jnana, we have our
>>>>>> ishta devata and the particular upAsana and archana vidhi and more
>>>>>> interestingly different gods have different family, different legacy and
>>>>>> different stories behind them.  So, IMHO, when we consider upAdhi veshesha
>>>>>> brahma or sOpAdhika brahma or guNa vishesha brahma there is absolutely no
>>>>>> problem in holding them as different.  Seeing the difference does not
>>>>>> anyway mean we are scaling them like one upAdhi is superior to another or
>>>>>> one upAdhi is inferior or incapable to do certain things.  All upAdhi
>>>>>> veshesha kArya brahman is equally capable to give everything to their
>>>>>> respective upAsaka-s and ArAdhakas.  But with the paramArtha drushti in
>>>>>> mind we should not mix these different gods and do girija kalyANa to rAma
>>>>>> and seetha kalyANa to shiva since shiva and rAma have their own family in
>>>>>> shastric vyavahAra.  When the ‘shape’ is different and shaping of these
>>>>>> deities have their own history why mix it unnecessarily ??  rAma is rAma
>>>>>> only and krishna is krishna only rAma is eka patni vratastha and krishna is
>>>>>> nitya and shuddha brahmachAri!!  Shiva is having ganga and shakti on his
>>>>>> left whereas rAma is with seeta and his parivAra.  ekaM sat viprA bahudA
>>>>>> vadanti, tattva is ONE and vyAkruta rUpa of that ONE tattva with the
>>>>>> association of upAdhi is definitely different in shAstric vyavahAra.
>>>>>> shArda is shArada and chandramouleeshwara is chandramouleeshwara only
>>>>>> upAsana, archana vidhi, mantra viniyOga all are different keeping upAdhi
>>>>>> vishesha in mind.  And keeping the upAsya, upAsana and upAsaka triad in
>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my few thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bhaskar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Bhaskar YR*
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Bangalore 560058, Karnataka, India
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>>>>>> E-mail: bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com
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