[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Venkat Ji,

Reg  <<  The tAratamyatA (gradation) of the phala (result) is not because
of the tAratamyatA of the upAsya devatA but because of the tAratamyatA of
the sankalpa and sAdhana >>,

In the prescribed  sankalpa and sAdhanAs  for different pUjAvidhAnAs,  the
upAsya devatA  is also prescribed. Is it not ?  Hence the tAratamyatA of
the upAsya devatA is also covered.

Reg  << As bhagavAn says in the gitA,
येऽप्यन्यदेवता भक्ता यजन्ते श्रद्धयाऽन्विताः।
तेऽपि मामेव कौन्तेय यजन्त्यविधिपूर्वकम्।।
Whosoever worships other deities with faith, they worship Me (Ishvara)
only, without knowing >>,

This is not disputed.

Regards



On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 3:55 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Chandramouli ji,
>
> Sure.
>
> The tAratamyatA (gradation) of the phala (result) is not because of the
> tAratamyatA of the upAsya devatA but because of the tAratamyatA of the
> sankalpa and sAdhana. As stated in the upaniShad यदेव विद्यया करोति
> श्रद्धयोपनिषदा तदेव वीर्यवत्तरं भवति.
>
> If the sankalpa of a karma is for a material result, it will naturally
> produce a result which will be of lower value than a karma done for
> chittashuddhi. Similarly a karma done in combination with upAsana will
> produce a superior result than a karma done without upAsana. Similarly the
> depth, duration and focus of the upAsana will also determine the
> superiority of the result. Thus, we cannot conclude that the tAratamyatA of
> the result is because of the tAratamyatA of the upAsya devatA.
>
> As bhagavAn says in the gitA,
> येऽप्यन्यदेवता भक्ता यजन्ते श्रद्धयाऽन्विताः।
> तेऽपि मामेव कौन्तेय यजन्त्यविधिपूर्वकम्।।
> Whosoever worships other deities with faith, they worship Me (Ishvara)
> only, without knowing.
>
> This implies that even those that worship exalted jIva-s such as
> hiraNyagarbha, Indra etc with faith, ultimately worship Ishvara only.
> Because such a worship is done without knowing that it is Ishvara that is
> being worshipped, the result will naturally be inferior to the worship
> knowing that the object of worship is Ishvara Himself.
>
> That being the case, what to talk of one form of Ishvara (Shiva Vishnu,
> Parvati etc), or the other?
>
> How that worship is to be performed will depend on and differ based on
> Agama / shruti / smRti vidhi, but that it is Ishvara that is ultimately
> being worshipped is our siddhAnta.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023, 08:28 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Venkat Ji,
>>
>> Extending the discussion, just for enjoying the Advaita Siddhanta. Who
>> knows, it may throwup  some interesting and important ideas.
>>
>> If tAratamyatA is considered in its aspect of phala, then Advaita
>>  Siddhanta certainly  does  admit of tAratamyatA between one form of
>> Ishvara and the other. Would it be wrong to say so?
>> Regards
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:43 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
>>> There is bheda accepted in shAstra vyavahAra in advaita. Each devatA has
>>> His or Her own pUja, japa, mantra vidhi, etc which cannot be mixed up.
>>>
>>> What Advaita does not admit is tAratamyatA between one form of Ishvara
>>> and the other. That is not tantamount to acceptance of abheda in vyavahAra.
>>>
>>> Has anyone espoused such a view for you to question it?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 04:55 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> praNAms
>>>>
>>>> Hare Krishna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When you agree dvaita in vyavahAra why not agree bedha in devata in
>>>> shAstric vyavahAra ??  I humbly ask my fellow advaitins.  Yes in paramArtha
>>>> when there is no bedha even jeeva and brahma no question of bedha
>>>> whatsoever.  But when we are dealing with vyAkruta jagat in vyavahAra where
>>>> upAdhi visheshaNa holds sway why and what is the necessity to think all
>>>> devata-s are one!!??  If that is the case even in vyavahAra also why only
>>>> abedha among ONLY devata-s why not abedha between jeeva and Ishwara!!??.
>>>> But in vyavahAra we the tiny jeeva-s would strive to get jnana, we have our
>>>> ishta devata and the particular upAsana and archana vidhi and more
>>>> interestingly different gods have different family, different legacy and
>>>> different stories behind them.  So, IMHO, when we consider upAdhi veshesha
>>>> brahma or sOpAdhika brahma or guNa vishesha brahma there is absolutely no
>>>> problem in holding them as different.  Seeing the difference does not
>>>> anyway mean we are scaling them like one upAdhi is superior to another or
>>>> one upAdhi is inferior or incapable to do certain things.  All upAdhi
>>>> veshesha kArya brahman is equally capable to give everything to their
>>>> respective upAsaka-s and ArAdhakas.  But with the paramArtha drushti in
>>>> mind we should not mix these different gods and do girija kalyANa to rAma
>>>> and seetha kalyANa to shiva since shiva and rAma have their own family in
>>>> shastric vyavahAra.  When the ‘shape’ is different and shaping of these
>>>> deities have their own history why mix it unnecessarily ??  rAma is rAma
>>>> only and krishna is krishna only rAma is eka patni vratastha and krishna is
>>>> nitya and shuddha brahmachAri!!  Shiva is having ganga and shakti on his
>>>> left whereas rAma is with seeta and his parivAra.  ekaM sat viprA bahudA
>>>> vadanti, tattva is ONE and vyAkruta rUpa of that ONE tattva with the
>>>> association of upAdhi is definitely different in shAstric vyavahAra.
>>>> shArda is shArada and chandramouleeshwara is chandramouleeshwara only
>>>> upAsana, archana vidhi, mantra viniyOga all are different keeping upAdhi
>>>> vishesha in mind.  And keeping the upAsya, upAsana and upAsaka triad in
>>>> mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just my few thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>>
>>>> bhaskar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Bhaskar YR*
>>>>
>>>> #4A, 5 & 6 2nd Phase Peenya Industrial Estate
>>>> Bangalore 560058, Karnataka, India
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