[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[Kaushik Chevendra]

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>    - I am not talking about temporary posts that would be earned through
>    puNya  by ‘some’ jeeva-s, but I am asking about the declaration of ‘they
>    are ULTIMATELY jeeva-s.  Is there any concept in Advaita that would tell us
>    about the ultimate existence of ‘some’ jeeva-s apart from one Chaitanya??
>    If it is argued that one Chaitanya is from the paramArtha view point and
>    multiple jeeva-s exisence is in vyavahAra then we have to accept that bheda
>    vyavahAra is quite valid and deva-devata bheda too valid in shAstra
>    vyavahAra drushti.  So what exactly we are defending and arguing in
>    shiva-vishNu abheda??
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> Namaste. Yes in vyavahara bheda is present no doubt. But all the forms of
isvara are-
1) Completely pure
2) Are not a cause of their past karmas
3) Their body isn't made of prakriti like the devatas. Acharya explained
this in his gita bhasya where he says isvara has "aprakrita" shareera which
is peculiar to him alone.
4) The concept of many jeevas is present in vyavahara but there is no
concept of various isvara.
5) Have complete control over Maya and the jagat.
6) not affected by avidya.


The above characteristics reside with isvara alone and no other "ultimately
jeeva" devatas


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> Ø     I have read somewhere 100 brahma years is equal to vishNu-s 1 day
> and 100 vishNu years is paramashiva-s one day or something like that with
> regard to life span of trimurthy-s.  😊 So in that sense the forms of
> trimurthy-s not ever lasting it is only long lasting forms when compared to
> other forms.
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There are many arbitrary and contradicting statments in puranas etc. I can
quote many verses to show that bagavan is changeless, unaffected by pralaya
and always remains in his saguna rupa.
Hence the view of sampradaya is that isvara is anadi and unaffected byt
time. There is no life Span for him. There is only one isvara who shall
remain so till anadi kala. This has been explained by our acharyas, hence
it is the final word for us.
 And no one else becomes isvara due to some karma phala like in the case of
devatas. All the devatas attain their Shakthi through isvara alone as he
gives them this strength on the basis of their karma.
In the Trimurtis,brahma is jeeva only not isvara.

     Yes that is exactly my point.  Jeeva Ishwara bheda is verily present
> and IshvarOpAdhi whether it is through his own saMkalpa, mAyA shareera or
> otherwise are also different.  When the purpose of this shareera dhAraNa
>  is dushta shikshaNa, shishta rakshaNa and dharma saMsthApana he assumes
> nAnA rUpa each rUpa entirely different from one another and serves
> different purpose and worship of it will be done by jeeva-s/bhakta-s are
> also different in different way.  Can we dispute this??
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There is no doubt here bhaskarji. As long as the devotee knows that the
same isvara takes up many forms and worships bagavan his mukthi is sure.

>    then what are they apart from Ishwara who is upAdAna and nimitta
> kAraNa for this charAchara jagat??
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The ekatva of jivas and isvara is only in the aspect of chaitanya. Even
though isvara is nimmita karana, he is well above the jagat and unaffected
by it.
The difference of isvara and devatas has already been explained by shri
venkataraghavn sir. He has presented the view of sampradaya perfectly.
Please read his answer

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>   Yes it is not only restricted to some specified and noted names and
> forms of some popular deities.  He is ONE is all and All in one.  As long
> as we don’t realize this as you said above jeeveshara bheda is quite
> evident.  And jeeva’s Aradhana / upAsana to different gods and goddesses
> too evident.  This is what I am sharing.  When bheda accepted in vyavahAra
> why don’t we accept bheda in paramAtma’s personified forms??
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No doubt bhaskarji. That various are the ways of worship of isvara.
It's well known in the sampradaya that Pooja vidhi of various forms of
isvara is different. But it's only one isvara who is nirakara saguna
brahman who has the entire universe in his control that is being worshipped.

I hope this suffices my view and can avoid further discussion


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> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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> bhaskar
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