[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[Kaushik Chevendra]

Namaste sir.
The only reason i am contending diffence between isvara and Surya devata
etc is that they have specifically been stated to be jeevas attaining the
post due to punya karma.
Infact our very acharya shri chandrashekhara Bharathi swamin who is the
guru of abhinava vidyatirtha swami, had clearly stated that surya has
hiranyagarbha above him. And hiranyagarbha has isvara above him. This
conversation has been recorded in the book. Hence the difference between
jeevatmas and isvara is specified here.

Now the correct understanding can be that because in our sampradaya, we
accept worship of Surya etc granting krama mukthi, the reason is that the
result of such worship is same. That is, if one worships isvara as
everything (jagat karta etc) or he worships devata such as surya who has
been accepted as a form of isvara (viboothi) he attains the same result.
But the result being the same doesn't mean they are the same.

Further the worship of these devatas, is the worship of isvara only.
Because bagavan has already stated that all the worship of devatas goes to
him only. And whatever Shakthi the devatas possess is also because of him.
Hence when we worship surya bagavan it's isvara only who is being
worshipped, hence asking him to grant mukthi and calling him jagat karta is
not a contradiction. But statments such as surya being the source of
Trimurtis should be understood differently such that there is no
contradiction with Acharyas bhasya and sampradaya. If surya himself was
given the position by isvara, how can he be the source of isvara?

Namo narayana

On Sat, 11 Feb, 2023, 11:23 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I agree with you. But in the Puranas for Skanda, Surya, etc. they have
> been portrayed as Jagat srishti sthiti laya karanam and sometimes the
> source from which the Trimurtis emerge. It is not just praying for mukti
> but the stuti or some other statement which says 'this deity x is capable
> of granting mukti'.  That is the indication of that deity being Para
> Brahman, Saguna Brahman, Ishwara, for the one who composed that stuti.
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 9:45 AM Kaushik Chevendra <
> chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste sir.
>> Even in the vedas indradi devatas are asked for mukthi but they aren't
>> verily isvara himself.
>> In the case of Surya and skanda, both are jeevas only. Because in
>> acharyas bhasya itself Surya is said to have end of term and attain nirguna
>> mukthi after his prarbdha karma. But in the case of isvara there is no
>> karma to be exhausted.
>> Further isvara is "unchanging", "eternal" and "unborn".
>> The reconciliation i find is that they can be worshipped as non different
>> from isvara. Because Shruthi has stated that saguna upasana includes Surya.
>>
>> On Sat, 11 Feb, 2023, 8:55 am V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is a composition of the present Jagadguru of the Sringeri Peetham
>>> on Subrahmanya:
>>>
>>> सुब्रह्मण्यं सदा वन्दे
>>> चिन्तितसकलेष्टदानदीक्षं तम् ।
>>> दुष्टदैत्यविनाशनं देवसेनानायकं
>>> दीनरक्षणतत्परं दयापारावारम् ॥
>>>
>>> subrahmaṇyaṃ sadā vande
>>> cintitasakaleṣṭadānadīkṣaṃ tam ;
>>> duṣṭadaityavināśanaṃ devasenānāyakaṃ
>>> dīnarakṣaṇatatparaṃ dayāpārāvāram .
>>>
>>> भवभीतिनिवारणं भवानीप्रियतनयं
>>> भुक्तिमुक्तिफलप्रदं भारतीतीर्थसेवितम् ॥
>>>
>>> bhavabhītinivāraṇaṃ bhavānīpriyatanayaṃ
>>> bhuktimuktiphalapradaṃ bhāratītīrthasevitam .
>>>
>>> Here the Lord is said to confer Mukti too.  Similar is Shankaracharya's
>>> famous Subrahmanya Bhujangam which says the Lord is the one hidden in the
>>> Mahavakya:
>>>
>>> मयूराधिरूढं महावाक्यगूढं
>>> मनोहारिदेहं महच्चित्तगेहम् ।
>>> महीदेवदेवं महावेदभावं
>>> महादेवबालं भजे लोकपालम् ॥३॥
>>>
>>> Shankara's famous Ganesha Pancharatnam begins with the verse:
>>>
>>> मुदा करात्तमोदकं सदा विमुक्तिसाधकं  He is always conducive to provide
>>> Mukti.
>>> कलाधरावतंसकं विलासलोकरक्षकम्।
>>> अनायकैकनायकं विनाशितेभदैत्यकं
>>> नताशुभाशुनाशकं नमामि तं विनायकम्॥१॥
>>>
>>> The present Jagadguru of Sringeri composed a song on Lord Ayyappa when
>>> he had visited the place with his Guru:
>>>
>>> ज्ञानं षडास्यवरतातकृपैकलभ्यं
>>> मोक्षस्तु तार्क्ष्यवरवाहदयैकलभ्यः ।
>>> ज्ञानं च मोक्ष उभयं तु विना श्रमेण   The Lord confers both Jnanam and
>>> Moksha with ease...
>>> प्राप्यं जनैः हरिहरात्मजसत्प्रसादात् ॥ ६ ॥
>>>
>>> There are many other stotras of Shankara and other Acharyas of the
>>> Peetham here: https://sringeri.net/stotras  on many deities where one
>>> can see Moksha as a component in many of them.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> subbu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 2:35 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2023, 07:50 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
>>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    - Just I was thinking of closing this discussion since on most of
>>>>>    the terms we are in agreement.  But this shruti reference I am not able to
>>>>>    find it in dashOpanishat ( I might have missed it)  Kindly share up.
>>>>>    Reference and shankara bhAshya on kAryOpAdnirayaM jeevaH
>>>>>    kAraNOAdhireeshwaraH.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not in the dashopaniShad. It is found in the
>>>> shuka-rahasyopaniShad in the following mantra:
>>>>
>>>> कार्योपाधिरयं जीवः कारणोपाधिरीश्वरः।
>>>> कार्यकारणतां हित्वा पूर्णबोधोऽवशिष्यते॥
>>>>
>>>> I also recall finding this statement in one of the pUrva / uttara
>>>> nRsimha tApini upaniShad-s a few years back. I don't recall which - but I
>>>> could be mistaken also.
>>>>
>>>> If it is ok, let us leave this discussion where it is for now - the
>>>> rest of your comments below require a detailed discussion I think, which I
>>>> do not have the time at present to participate in.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>    - When it comes to upAdhi I think bhAshyakAra said upAdhi is
>>>>>    avidyAkruta.  This is not about kAryOpAdhi, this is about kAraNOpAdhi of
>>>>>    Ishwara, shankara explicitly says : evamavidyAkrutanAmarUpOpAdhyanurOdhi
>>>>>    IshwarO bhavati…subsequent observations of bhAshyakAra substantiate this
>>>>>    i.e.  even IshrOpAdhi is mere avidyAkruta hence his sarvajnatvaM,
>>>>>    sharvashatitvaM etc. valid only in avidyA kshetra.  And in
>>>>>    samanvayAdhikaraNa bhAshya bhAshyakAra talks about
>>>>>    apekshitOpAdhisambandhaM.  (ekamekamapi brahma  apekshitOpAdhisambandhaM
>>>>>    nirastOpAdhi sambandhaM cha upAsyatvena jneyatvena cha
>>>>>    vedAnteshUpadishyate.  What is apekshti upAdhi here of upAsaka??  And how
>>>>>    it is not kAryOpAdhi but kAraNOpAdhi of Ishwara??  Please clarify.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> bhaskar
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "advaitin" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB6581BF316D5F51CE87C6781184DE9%40AM7PR06MB6581.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/AM7PR06MB6581BF316D5F51CE87C6781184DE9%40AM7PR06MB6581.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "advaitin" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aEnmqBcGTJPoh_sYg0JuBXev%3DrC7dHX6M9FbYYCCuMD9mg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAL34aEnmqBcGTJPoh_sYg0JuBXev%3DrC7dHX6M9FbYYCCuMD9mg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>