[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Subrahmanian Ji

Reg  <<  We have statements in the Bhashya such as
the person who has acquired the post of prajapati /Hiranyagarbha is stated
to have 'independent ability to create, sustain and withdraw'.  There is a
very specific statement of Shankaracharya in the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya to
this effect >>

And

<<  So, that H cannot be the Creator,
Sustainer and Destroyer. But Shankara says so. That is what is intriguing.
It requires a thorough study of the Bhashyas to reconcile this. We cannot
say that this independence is relative as H is not admitted anywhere to be
the sustainer, etc. Hence this problem. I have not got a convincing
solution to this so far >.

I presume reference is to BUB 1-2-1.

BU 1-2-1  <<  नैवेह किञ्चनाग्र आसीन्मृत्युनैवेदमावृतमासीदशनाययाशनाया हि
मृत्युस्तन्मनोऽकुरुतात्मन्वी स्यामिति । >>

<<  naiveha ki~nchanAgra AsInmRRityunaivedamAvRRitamAsIdashanAyayAshanAyA
hi mRRityustanmano.akurutAtmanvI syAmiti | >>

The Bhashya on this states

BUB 1-2-1

<<  स एष बुद्ध्यवस्थो हिरण्यगर्भो मृत्युरित्युच्यते । तेन मृत्युनेदं
कार्यमावृतमासीत् , यथा पिण्डावस्थया मृदा घटादय आवृताः स्युरिति तद्वत् >>

<<  sa eSha buddhyavastho hiraNyagarbho mRRityurityuchyate | tena
mRRityunedaM kAryamAvRRitamAsIt , yathA piNDAvasthayA mRRidA ghaTAdaya
AvRRitAH syuriti tadvat  >>

<<  यद्वा  विराजमुद्दिश्य  संकल्पमकरोन्मनः । आत्मन्वी  स्यामिति  तथा
साकूतः  सृष्टिकारणम् ।  >>

<<  yadvA  virAjamuddishya  saMkalpamakaronmanaH | AtmanvI  syAmiti  tathA
sAkUtaH  sRRiShTikAraNam |  >>

Sri Bhagavatpada here interprets  मृत्यु (mRRityu)  as Hiranyagarbha and
 states that just as kAryAs like pot etc are covered by kAraNa like
clay (पिण्डावस्थया
मृदा piNDAvasthayA mRRidA), this Creation was covered by Hiranyagarbha in
the form of (samashti) Buddhi.

This would give the impression that Creation was by Hiranyagarbha.

This is explained by Swami Sureswaracharya in the vArtika

BUBV 1-2-1-145

<<  यद्वा  विराजमुद्दिश्य  संकल्पमकरोन्मनः । आत्मन्वी  स्यामिति  तथा  साकूतः
सृष्टिकारणम् ।  >>

<<  yadvA  virAjamuddishya  saMkalpamakaronmanaH | AtmanvI  syAmiti  tathA
sAkUtaH  sRRiShTikAraNam |  >>

Translation   <<  The Root Cause of this Creation, who had a thought (in
mind) ; **let me be possessed of a self or a body **, created manas , the
one which collects impressions  in an orderly way,  with the intention of
creating Viraj  >>.

The word  मृत्यु (mRRityu) is interpreted as ** The Root Cause in the form
of Hiranyagarbha **.

Sri Anandagiri Acharya  explains  thus

<<…………सृष्टेः स्वरूपं यस्येति सृष्टिकारण  इत्यर्थः। सृष्टेः  कारणं
ब्रह्मास्य कारणं स्वरूपमिति  वा  सूत्रात्मा  यथोक्तः। >>

<<    sRRiShTeH svarUpaM yasyeti sRRiShTikAraNa  ityarthaH | sRRiShTeH
kAraNaM  brahmAsya kAraNaM svarUpamiti  vA  sUtrAtmA  yathoktaH | >>

Note ::  सृष्टिकारणः  विग्रहमाह – सृष्टेरिति । (sRRiShTikAraNaH
vigrahamAha - sRRiShTeriti  |).

Just as मृत् (mRRit)  is the kAraNa for मृत्पिण्ड (mRRitpiNDa), अव्याकृत
(avyAkRRita)  is the kAraNa for Hiranyagarbha himself. Hence there is
consistency as between Bhashya and Vartika.

I hope this addresses your concern. You may like to refer to this portion
of the vArtika and a couple of slokas following and preceding this sloka
for further clarity.

I have based this on the kannada translation and notes of  BUBV by Sri
Krishna Jois.

Regards

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 12:09 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 10:37 AM Kaushik Chevendra <
> chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Namaste sir.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Raghav,
> >>
> >> Your post makes a lot of sense.  We have statements in the Bhashya such
> as
> >> the person who has acquired the post of prajapati /Hiranyagarbha is
> stated
> >> to have 'independent ability to create, sustain and withdraw'.
> >
> >
> > This independence is only relative.
> >
>
> There is a problem here: Hiranyagarbha, the Lord of that 14th loka, where
> saguna upasaka's go for krama mukti, is stated by Shankara in that Br.Up.
> bhashya as the one who is independently capable of creation, etc. This H is
> someone who has attained that status through upasana, and in that section
> alone Shankara says about his capacity. And this loka is said to perish and
> H along with others will *become* muktas. So, that H cannot be the Creator,
> Sustainer and Destroyer. But Shankara says so. That is what is intriguing.
> It requires a thorough study of the Bhashyas to reconcile this. We cannot
> say that this independence is relative as H is not admitted anywhere to be
> the sustainer, etc. Hence this problem. I have not got a convincing
> solution to this so far.
>
> Bhashya for Br.Up. mantra 1.4.1:
>
>
>  ज्ञानकर्मभ्यां समुच्चिताभ्यां प्रजापतित्वप्राप्तिर्व्याख्याता ;
> केवलप्राणदर्शनेन च — ‘तद्धैतल्लोकजिदेव’ इत्यादिना । प्रजापतेः फलभूतस्य
> सृष्टिस्थितिसंहारेषु जगतः स्वातन्त्र्यादिविभूत्युपवर्णनेन
> ज्ञानकर्मणोर्वैदिकयोः फलोत्कर्षो वर्णयितव्य इत्येवमर्थमारभ्यते । तेन च
> कर्मकाण्डविहितज्ञानकर्मस्तुतिः कृता भवेत्सामर्थ्यात् ।
>
> By resorting to samucchaya of jnana and karma Prajapati status is to be
> attained. ....The fruit of that sadhana is Prajapati who is the cause of
> the creation, sustenance and destruction of the world independently.  This
> is one of the vibhutis of Prajapati.  This is in the section of the vaidika
> jnana karma samucchaya.
>
> How can Prajapati be endowed with the above stated capacity, which is
> reserved for the nitya siddha Ishwara in the Brahma sutras?
>
> regards
> subbu
>
>
> > Just as we say Indra is independently capable of giving rains etc..
> > Why is this relative? Otherwise the statment of acharya in his gita
> bhasya
> > will become contradictory.
> > Krishna says i am "sarva bhuta mahesvrah" to this acharya says " the one
> > who has the control of things starting of blade of grass to brahma
> > himself". Also the Shruthi statment of "isvara sarvabhutanam
> brahmadipati"
> > (lord of brahama and etc).
> > Hence to avoid contradiction of acharya bhasya this interpretation is to
> > be taken.
> >
> >
> >>
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