[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[Kaushik Chevendra]

> If Ishwara alone is creating through Prajapati, the sustenance and
> destruction  are also stated by Shankaracharya as that of Prajapati,
> independently, and so Prajapati has to be doing the role of Vishnu and
> Shiva, on behalf of Ishwara.
>

The difference here is very simple. The shareera through which brahma does
his creation is still affected by avidya. Hence i called him an instrument.
For the hundredth time i have stated that the shareera of bagavan is made
of his own Maya. The form of Vishnu is peculiar only to him as isvara.
So the sustenance and creation is being directly by him. There is no
"behalf" here. That's a very wrong interpretation of my words. It's isvara
only who is creating through Brahma. No behalf here.
And for the hundredth time i am talking about the Guna of "control of Maya"
in the hands of isvara.
I had already explained this sir. I can't keep repeating myself.

Then the Trimurtis will come under the category of 'the Vayu, Surya, Indra,
> Agani and Yama are all functioning under the fear of Ishwara' as per the
> Taittiriya Up. which Shankara cites in the case of Surya. This is because
> it is admitted in the siddhanta that Ishwara does the sustenance function
> through the instrumentality of Indra etc. Thus Vishnu and Shiva, along with
> Prajapati/Brahma/Hiranyagarbha will have to be admitted to be under the
> control of Ishwara.
>

How have you come to this conclusion sir? The indradi devatas including
brahma have limited Shakthi. While bagavan is unlimited. Just because he
acts through instruments doesn't mean every action of his has to be done in
the same way.

I think that is the reason that the Parasara Smriti, etc. admit of the
> beginning and end of the Trimurtis in every creation cycle.
>

I had already given an explanation to this. As to why this will be a
ridiculous problem.

This does not imply the absence of an Ishwara during pralaya since that
> Ishwara alone manifests as the Trimurtis, Indra, etc. in every cycle. This
> will validate the idea of Turiya Vishnu/Shiva in the Vishnu and Shiva
> Purana, Mahabharata, etc.
>
I can't repeat myself again. I had again explained why saying isvara and
Vishnu/Shiva are different is a ridiculous statment.
1) The gunas of isvara are that he is Nithya sudha, sarvajna, sarvashatha
and controller of Maya.
And in the upodhghata itself acharya has said all this belong to Vishnu.
Now in what way is this Vishnu differentiat from isvara?

>
> In the Panchadashi 10th chapter, Swami Vidyaranya says:
>
> परमात्माऽद्वयानन्दपूर्णः पूर्वं स्वमायया ।
> स्वयमेव जगद्भूत्वा प्राविशज्जीवरूपतः ॥ १०.१ ॥
>
> Paramatman, Brahman, through His own Maya, became the world Himself and
> 'entered' as 'jiva' in all the bodies created.
>
> विष्ण्वाद्युत्तमदेहेषु प्रविष्टो देवताभवत् ।
> मर्त्याद्यधमदेहेषु स्थितो भजति मर्त्यताम् ॥ १०.२ ॥
>
> In exalted bodies such as that of Vishnu, He became 'devataa'. In the
> lowly bodies of the humans, etc. He experiences human etc. states.
>
> The second cited verse has a variant reading:
>
> देवाद्युत्तमदेहेषु प्रविष्टो देवताभवत् ।
> मर्त्याद्यधमदेहेषु स्थितो भजति देवताम् ॥ १०.२ ॥
>
> But the first mentioned reading alone is taken up by the commentator Sri
> Ramakrishna Pandita for commenting.
>
> In the scheme of Panchadashi, Vishnu, etc. are 'jivas' in whom Brahman has
> 'entered' and posing as these deities. Here we see a distinction between
> the Ishwara/Brahman and the deities such as Vishnu.
>
I have quoted numerous statments by our acharyas such as jagadguru abhinava
vidyatirtha swami, chandrashekhar Bharathi, madhusudhana Saraswati,
sridhara swamin and even acharya Shankara himself. If you choose to ignore
all of them based on the panchadasi it's your choice sir.

>
>
So we have apparently conflicting views in Advaitic/Smriti/Puranic texts
> regarding the status of Vishnu, etc.
>
Not really sir. The panchadasi statment can also be interpreted in a way
which is in line with our sampradaya.

>
regards
>
> subbu
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