[Advaita-l] Gaudapada and Shankara hold the waking objects to be mithya

[Venkatraghavan S]

My phone jumbled up a word below. The correct text is below:

There is no avidyA for jnAni because of samyakjnAna, but there is the
continued presence of samskAra rUpa ajnAna (avidyAlesha) which is the cause
for the continuation of the appearance of the world to him.


On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 17:33 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
> Responses in-line.
>
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 12:11 Bhaskar YR, <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
> wrote:
>
>> praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>> >  Some interesting observations from you in this mail.  Just raising my
>> doubts, if possible, please clarify.
>>
>> In the case of sopAdhika bhrama, avidyA is destroyed, but the upAdhi
>> persists and until then, the appearance of the superimposed persists.
>>
>> > In sOpAdhika bhrama darshana ( like mirage water or can we include sun
>> rise and set also!!??) the appearance of the adhyAropita continue because
>> of the upAdhi but not due to avidyA.  So what is the bhrama part here ??
>
> If one thinks the mirage is water that is bhrama. If one knows it is not a
> mirage it is not bhrama. The avidyA that is the cause for the former is
> destroyed with samyakjnAna. The anuvRtti of pratIti is because of anuvRtti
> of the upAdhi and will continue for so long as the upAdhi is there.
>
> whether it is avidyA or darshana because jnAni still having the upAdhi
>> saMbandha??
>
> There is no avidyA for jnAni because of samyakjnAna, but there is the
> continued presence of samskAra rUpa ajnAna (avidyAlesha) which is the cause
> for the continuation ofbthebhodym
>
> And can we say upAdhi saMbandha of the jnAni through which he will
>> continue to have sOpAdhika bhrama and perceives the ahdhyArOpita vastu sans
>> any sort of avidyA??
>
> Yes.
>
>   If yes, there must be some clear difference between avidyA drushti
>> (misconception) and sOpAdhika bhrama due to upAdhi sambandha, is it not??
>> Or am I missing something??
>>
> Yes, the jnAni's anubhava and ajnAni's anubhava of the same world is
> indicative of the difference. The jnAni is untouched by the problems of the
> world, the ajnAni is totally caught up in them.
>
>>
>> So, the perception of the superimposed is not because of some remnant of
>> avidyA remaining post sublation, but because of the presence of an
>> externality, an upAdhi, which is the cause for the continue perception of
>> the superimposed - even when ignorance has been sublated.
>>
>> >  So from the above observation,  avidyA lesha in the paramArtha jnAni
>> too negated by saying it is because of the PRESENCE of an externality,
>> upAdhi.  So what exactly is avidyAlesha if it is NOT what you explained
>> above??
>>
>
> avidyAlesha is that upAdhi which continues in jIvanmukti.
>
>
>> In the case of the red crystal, the illusion persists so long as the red
>> flower is nearby, even when the ignorance of the transparency of crystal
>> has been sublated. In the case of jIvanmukti, the appearance of the world
>> continues so long as prArabdha (upAdhi) persists.
>>
>> >  illusion and ignorance are completely different in this example.  Am I
>> correct prabhuji??
>
> Illusion here means pratIti. Ignorance here is ignorance of the nature of
> the substratum.
>
>
>>
>> The jnAni continues to perceive the world as a result - so the tucChatva
>> cannot be from his standpoint also.
>>
>> >  So for the paramArtha jnAni,  world would continue to exist or
>> illusion about the world continue to exist ( like continuation of
>> illusionary perception of red crystal even after the jnana of clear
>> crystal) and IT IS NOT athyanta abhAva  or tuccha for the paramArtha
>> jnAni.
>
> To the jnAni the world is mithyA - it is non-existent, but continues to
> appear.
>
> e.g.
> सवितर्यपि शीतरुचौ चन्द्रे तीक्ष्णेऽप्यधो वहत्यग्नौ ।
> मायिकमिदमिति जानन्जीवन्मुक्तो न विस्मयी भवति ॥
>
>
>
>>
>> One can take tucchatva in the verse to be from the standpoint of
>> paramArtha  where even such a pratIti does not occur - ie from the
>> standpoint of Brahman or post videhakaivalya.
>>
>> >  I could see  subtle difference between Jeevan mukti of the jnAni  and
>> videhakaivalya ( Videha mukti) of the jnAni here.  Do you mean here to have
>> the clear crystal the upAdhi is the obstacle or perception of red crystal
>> is due to presence of upAdhi??
>
> Yes.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>> bhaskar
>>
>