[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Mandukya bhashya. Ignorance seed in sushupti

[K Kathirasan]

I must acknowledge that I am also of the same view, not that I agree with everything SSS teaches, but avidya as a device for teaching is better appreciated experientially as epistemological rather than ontological. I welcome myself into the 1%. :) 

Warmest Regards,
Kathirasan K

> On 28 Jun 2023, at 12:12 AM, dwaite at advaita.org.uk wrote:
> 
> Dear All,
>  
> Just for the record, I would like to register my membership of the 1% brigade!
>  
> Having spent the past 2 years reading everything I could find on the topics of ignorance and disappearance of the world on enlightenment, I have finally completed what constitutes Vol. 2 of my ‘Confusions in Advaita Vedanta’, sub-titled ‘Ignorance and its Removal’. (Sent to the publisher today.) As many will recall, the purpose of this series (4 volumes in total) is to address those issues that cause confusion amongst Advaitins and to clarify Ṥaṅkara’s stance on them, principally using quotations from shruti, GIta, Gaudapada, Ṥaṅkara and Sureshvara to counter the many quotations expressing contrary or conflicting explanations. 
>  
> In this volume, one of the aspects that I specifically address is the notion of avidyA as a really existent entity and I am afraid that I have to conclude, using reason and common sense, as well as the quotations, that what is meant by ‘ignorance’ is simply ‘lack of knowledge’. Essentially, it is a language problem. So, yes, there is certainly ignorance in the deep-sleep state, simply because the mind is resolved and incapable of having knowledge about anything. But there is no mUlAvidyA, I’m afraid. And I hope that many WILL be convinced if they read all of the arguments. Unfortunately, it will almost certainly be next summer at the earliest before it appears. (Incidentally, I do not consider myself to be an SSS adherent, even though I agree with him on these topics. There are quite a few others where I disagree!)
>  
> And, before everyone jumps up and down and starts sending me outraged responses, I have no intention of embarking upon a discussion here. My consideration in the book is at least 70,000 words long and cannot be summarized in a few short paragraphs. Also, I will be on holiday for the next week so unable even to read them. Sorry! I mainly wanted to reassure those readers who were dismayed to think that they were in the 1% who clearly did not understand Advaita!
>  
> Best wishes,
> Dennis
>  
> From: 'sreenivasa murthy' via advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com <mailto:advaitin at googlegroups.com>> 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 2:47 PM
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org <mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>; Advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com <mailto:advaitin at googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [advaitin] Mandukya bhashya. Ignorance seed in sushupti
>  
> Dear Sri Subramanian,
>  
> 99% of the members / students of vedanta all over the world 
> have agreed that there is avidya in sushupti state. 
> When that is the case Whom are you trying to convince?
> Is it not a waste of time?
>  
> You will be doing a great service if you can reveal the teachings of 
> Sri Gaudapada and Sri Shankara if you could highlight the teachings
> which are avivAdaH and aviruddhaH.
> Please think over.
> With respectful pranams,
> Sreenivasa Murthy.
>  
>  
> On Tuesday, 27 June, 2023 at 12:46:21 pm IST, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com <mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>  
>  
> In the Bhashyam for the mantra 7: naantaHprajnam, etc. Shankara says: the three states of waking, dream and sleep, that formed the subject matter of the first six mantras, is unreal, apAramArthikam, product of avidya, like the rope-snake, and is of the nature of seed-sprout (seed (cause) = deep sleep, and the sprout (effect) are the waking and dream. Shankara holds all the three, including the sleep state, to be endowed with Avidya (tattva agrahanam): 
>  
> तस्यापरमार्थरूपमविद्याकृतं रज्जुसर्पादिसममुक्तं पादत्रयलक्षणं बीजाङ्कुरस्थानीयम् । अथेदानीमबीजात्मकं परमार्थस्वरूपंरज्जुस्थानीयं सर्पादिस्थानीयोक्तस्थानत्रयनिराकरणेनाह — नान्तःप्रज्ञमित्यादिना । 
>  
> Contrasting with the three states (which is actually the entire samsara anubhava, the jagat), the Turiya, Chaturtham, is paaramaarthika, akin to the rope, which is taught as negating the snake-like pAda traya. 
>  
> In that very bhashya, while the mantra negates the sushupti state: na prajnAnaghanam, Shankara says: the state of sushupti is akin to seed, devoid of discrimination, aviveka svarupa (in the waking and dream the distinctions, vivikta, are perceived but not in deep sleep):   
>  
> नप्रज्ञानघनमिति सुषुप्तावस्थाप्रतिषेधः, बीजभावाविवेकस्वरूपत्वात् 
>  
> Thus, in the above statements, Shankara accepts avidya in deep sleep.  
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