[Advaita-l] Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Shri Krishna ji,

SDV - Srishti Drishti Vada
DSV - Drishti Srishti Vada

with humble prostrations,
Vikram

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:48 PM Krishna Kashyap via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Please expand the abbreviations SDV and DSV. I have some ideas about these
> two. But wanted to be sure.
> *Best Regards,*
>
> *Krishna Kashyap*
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:48 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Michael Chandra Cohen ji.
> >
> > avidyA appears only from the frame of reference of avidyA. From the frame
> > of reference of Brahman, there has never been avidyA, never been any
> > appearance of avidyA.
> >
> > The teaching "avidyA is mithyA"is from the frame of reference of avidyA
> in
> > which VedAs or teacher-disciple transaction takes place. From the frame
> of
> > reference of Brahman, it is ajAta.
> >
> > Whether jnAnI sees the world -- in answered in Advaita as per the model
> SDV
> > or DSV. These being two prakriya with the former ultimately leading one
> to
> > latter.
> >
> >
> > In SDV, avidyAlesha  and jIvanmukti are accepted.
> >
> > In DSV, neither avidyAlesha nor jIvanmukti are accepted.jIvanmukti
> > reference in shAstra is accepted to be arthavAda.
> >
> > Questions need to be posed in a model, a prakriyA.
> >
> > On Sun, 12 Nov 2023, 19:47 Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Does the mukta/jnani see the world?
> > > from: Sri Swami Satchidanandendra Saraswati (SSSS), Sugama (SKT -
> > Version);
> > > Section 71 (tr. Hishi Ryo ji):
> > > (English tr. follows)
> > > विनष्टत्वात् कथं भेदज्ञानानुवृत्तिः ? तदभावे च कथं
> > > शिष्येभ्यस्तत्त्वज्ञानोपदेशः ? तदनुवृत्तौ स्वयमज्ञस्य कथमाचार्यत्वम् ?
> > > बाधितानुवृत्तिस्वीकारेऽपि कथं मिथ्याविषयत्वनिश्चये सत्युपदेशाय
> > प्रवृत्तिः ?
> > > कथं च नित्यनिवृत्ताज्ञानस्य भगवतोऽर्जुनं प्रति गीतोपदेशः ?
> > > तस्माद्विद्याविद्यास्वरूपविभागोऽयमसमञ्जस एवेति न प्रतिभातिति चेत् ।
> अत्र
> > > प्रष्टव्यो भवान् । किं द्वैतसत्यत्वबाधकमद्वैतज्ञानमङ्गीकृत्येदं
> > प्रश्नजालं
> > > प्रतायतेऽथवा अनभ्युपगम्येति । तत्र प्रथमे कल्पे तावन्न प्रश्नो नापि
> > > चोत्तरम् । न ह्यद्वितीय तत्त्वज्ञाने सति पुनरपि किञ्चित् चोद्यम् भवति ।
> > > द्वितीये तुकल्पेऽज्ञदृष्ट्या सर्वोऽप्ययं व्यवहारोऽवकल्पत एवेति न
> > > कस्यचिदाक्षेपस्यावकाशः ।
> > > न ह्यद्वैतसिद्धान्ते ज्ञानोत्पत्त्यज्ञानबाधगुरुशिष्यभेदोपदेशादिकं
> परमार्थ
> > > इत्यभ्युपगम्यते प्रपञ्चसद्भावतनिवृत्ती वा पारमार्थिके इति ।
> > > द्वैतज्ञानसन्दूषितचित्तानां तु शिष्याणा क्रमेण बोधनायेदं सर्वं
> > > प्रक्रियारचनमिति नात्र किंचिदसामञ्जस्यम् यथाऽऽह भगवान् भाष्यकारः
> > > "एकस्मिन्ब्रह्मणि निरुपाधिके नोपदेशः, नोपदेष्टा, न च
> उपदेशग्रहणफलम्"इति।
> > > Interpretation/Translation:
> > > How can there be a continuance of duality (knowledge of difference,
> > > bhedajñānānuvṛttiḥ)) after it has been sublated ('eliminated')? And
> > because
> > > it has been sublated (i.e. absence of wrong knowledge), how can there
> be
> > > any instruction of knowledge of reality to students? And in the case
> > > (bhedajñānānuvṛttiḥ) continues, how can such an ignorant assume to be a
> > > teacher? Even when such a continuation of what has been sublated
> > > (bādhitānuvṛtti) is accepted, how can there be an engagement
> ('activity)
> > of
> > > teaching the Truth when the subject matter has been (already)
> determined
> > to
> > > be wrong? And how was the teaching in Bhagavad Gita by the Lord to
> Arjuna
> > > possible who is eternally devoid of it [i.e. ignorance]? Therefore, one
> > > should ask if this division of knowledge and ignorance is (itself)
> > proper.
> > > (Consequently), are these questions (objections) from the perspective
> of
> > > Non-Duality ('by acceptance of non-reality) that contradicts duality,
> or
> > is
> > > (non-duality) not at all accepted? In the former, there is no need for
> a
> > > question or response, as there is no question or response from the
> > > perspective of Non-Duality/Brahman. In the second case, however, all
> > these
> > > questions are conceived from the perspective of ignorance, so there is
> > > (also) no room for these (valid) questions (or objections).
> > > According to Advaita SiddhAnta, i.e. from the perspective of ultimate
> > > reality (paramArtha), [concepts such as] liberation, avidyA gets
> (really)
> > > eliminated, a distinction between teacher and disciple etc. is
> certainly
> > > not accepted. Rather, the cessation (sublation) of understanding the
> > > world/duality (as 'real') is considered the ultimate truth.
> > > (However) for disciples whose minds are (still) influenced by dualistic
> > > notions (i.e. ignorants), this prakriyA (i.e. adhyAropApavAda) is
> > gradually
> > > shaped towards their liberation. There is nothing inappropriate, as the
> > > revered bhAShyakAra says:
> > > "(Nevertheless, in case you think that) when the one unconditioned
> > Brahman
> > > is realized as the only reality, there is neither instruction nor
> > > instructor nor the result of comprehending the instruction (BrUP 2.1.20
> > Bh.
> > > Sw. MADVH)."
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