[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Acharya Sada ji.

//Dream is not a dream for a dreamer who is in the dream. That dream world
is real for him.

He realizes that it is not real only when he wakes up.

The dream example is used to show that waking world is not absolutely real.
Goudapaada negation of the waking world is only from the point of absolute
truth - with the statement - adou antecha yat naasti, vartamaanepi
tatttadaa. //

>From the point of view of absolute truth, there is no world, there is no
dream, there is no waking, there is no deep sleep. Absolute truth negates
everything which is seen.

The identity of dream and waking is derived from logic which is pretty much
within the domain of dream/waking.

What exactly is this "waking up"? A pramAtA can get anumiti pramA that
waking world is dream. He is not bound to bear the burden of truth-ness of
waking world despite having the anumiti pramA from the faultless anumAna of
bhAshyakAra - जाग्रद्दृश्यानां भावानां वैतथ्यमिति प्रतिज्ञा । दृश्यत्वादिति
हेतुः । स्वप्नदृश्यभाववदिति दृष्टान्तः । यथा तत्र स्वप्ने दृश्यानां भावानां
वैतथ्यम् , तथा जागरितेऽपि दृश्यत्वमविशिष्टमिति हेतूपनयः । तस्माज्जागरितेऽपि
वैतथ्यं स्मृतमिति निगमनम् ।

Where is the need to hold the requirement of "waking up". anumiti pramA
happens to pramAtA and not to shuddha Brahman. The anumAna of bhAshyakAra
is capable of giving pramA to pramAtA, which is very much within waking,
that waking is identical to dream. Where is the need to "wake up".

//But there is difference between the two states. In the dream world, a
dreamer cannot realize it as a dream while he is in the dream - for
realization viveka or discriminative intellect is needed which he does not
have. If has, he will not able to dream.//

Waker alleges this to the dreamer disregarding the fact that dreamer had
done so to the dreamer within his dream. When identity of waking and logic
is established by anumAna, giving rise to pramA to pramAtA, how can such a
statement be made.

//In contrast, in the waking state, the seeker can develop the required
Viveka to recognize the unreality of the waking world while still
remaining in the waking world. Hence all the nine yards that you mentioned
are important to develop the needed qualifications to discriminate what is
real and what is apparently real. Study of Vedanta under a competent
teacher, sampradaayic teaching, and required sadhana for the mind to
develop the necessary qualifications - all are important. //

Untenable in view of the anumAna presented. The waking-guru,
waking-samrpadAya are identical to dream-guru and dream-sampradAya. Any
preference given to either is violative of anumAna.

//DSV vs SDV all intended to help in the sadhana only.//

Sequentially to the same sAdhaka. One graduates from SDV to DSV.

//In the final analysis there is shrushti and no vadas too when one
realizes aham brahmaasmi.//

I think, in the final analysis, there is no srishTi and no vAda. DSV and
SDV are both before that.

Regards.
Sudhanshu Shekhar.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 7:50 AM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 05:22:09 PM GMT+5:30, 'Bhaskar YR' via
> advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>    - And for all practical purposes this is how our adhyAtma sAdhana
>    would go forward and in this frame work, though one talks a lot about
>    shAstra if he is asampradAyin needs to be ignored as idiot because for the
>    brahma jnana we need the guidance of shrOtriya-brahmanishta saMpradAyavida
>    Acharya.  And we have to prostrate before him and he is tattva darshi
>    (tadviddhi praNipAtena pari prashneya sevaya).  Guru Ashraya is
>    indispensable in brahma jignAsa, tadeva cha vishesheN jijnAsitavyaM
>    gurvAshraya shavaNAdyupaayairarnishya cha sAkshAtkaraNeeyaM ityarthaH.  And
>    I am sorry to say this more authentic way of jnana sAdhana will be highly
>    diluted when we have the preconceived notion that this
>    guru-sampradaaya-upadesha-sAdhana etc. are mere puppets dancing in my
>    dream.
>    -  And if you think that this sAmpradAyik way of jignAsa is just for
>    maNda and Madhyama adhikAri-s and every thing is just dream is for uttama
>    adhikAri-s, I would like to be mandAdhikAri 😊
>
> -------------------------------
> Bhaskarji - PraNAms
>
> I agree with you. The analogy with dream world is provided to show that
> the waking world is also not real.
>
> Dream is not a dream for a dreamer who is in the dream. That dream world
> is real for him.
>
> He realizes that it is not real only when he wakes up.
>
> The dream example is used to show that waking world is not absolutely
> real. Goudapaada negation of the waking world is only from the point of
> absolute truth - with the statement - adou antecha yat naasti, vartamaanepi
> tatttadaa.
> But there is difference between the two states. In the dream world, a
> dreamer cannot realize it as a dream while he is in the dream - for
> realization viveka or discriminative intellect is needed which he does not
> have. If has, he will not able to dream.
>
> In contrast, in the waking state, the seeker can develop the required
> Viveka to recognize the unreality of the waking world while still
> remaining in the waking world. Hence all the nine yards that you mentioned
> are important to develop the needed qualifications to discriminate what is
> real and what is apparently real. Study of Vedanta under a competent
> teacher, sampradaayic teaching, and required sadhana for the mind to
> develop the necessary qualifications - all are important.
>
> DSV vs SDV all intended to help in the sadhana only.
>
> In the final analysis there is shrushti and no vadas too when one realizes
> aham brahmaasmi.
>
> Seeker should follow what is best approach for his realization under the
> advise of his guru.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>


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