[Advaita-l] [advaitin] SSSS on the controversy between mulav7idya and abhavarupa - directly and simply explained as per SSSS

[Venkatraghavan S]

Dear Subbuji,

Yes ji, very true - it also states that the causation of Brahman is because
of that kAraNatva bIja, whose nature Shankara describes as tattva agrahaNa
- this tattva agrahaNa's nature cannot be abhAvarUpa.

Elsewhere, in BSB 2.3.31, talking of the same topic he
says, सुषुप्तादुत्थानमविद्यात्मकबीजसद्भावकारितम् — ‘सति सम्पद्य न विदुः सति
सम्पद्यामह इति ।’

Because that bIja is *present*, causation is present in Brahman - that bIja
is the changing material cause of creation. Similarly, because that
tattva-agrahaNAtmaka / avidyAtmaka bIja is *present*, the jIvas do not
realise upon waking up that they were one with Brahman.

He even uses the term bIja-sad-bhAva-kAritam in the BSB. If that bIja was
abhAvarupa, Shankara would have meant by this
jnAna-abhAva-sadbhAva-kAritam, i.e "it is due to the presence of absence of
knowledge", which is another tortured reading of the text, like many
others, in that line of argument.

Kind regards,
Venkatraghavan





On Sun, 25 Aug 2024, 01:22 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Venkat ji,
>
> Thanks for this Mandukya Bhashya quote.  The other significant statement
> there is:
>
>  तस्मात्सबीजत्वाभ्युपगमेनैव सतः प्राणत्वव्यपदेशः,* सर्वश्रुतिषु च
> कारणत्वव्यपदेशः* ।
>
> Bhashyakara is making a rule here:  In all shrutis, wherever pralaya and
> sushupti are dealt with, it has to be understood that the laya happens in
> the saguna Brahman, which is the KaaraNa Brahman, alone and not in the
> Nirguna Brahman. Hence there is no scope at all to deny the beejAvasthA in
> sushupti and pralaya.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
> On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 6:59 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Chandramouli ji, Sudhanshu ji,
>>
>> In the mANDUkya bhAShya 1.11, Shankaracharya says -
>> तत्त्वाग्रहणान्यथाग्रहणाभ्यां बीजफलभावाभ्यां तौ यथोक्तौ विश्वतैजसौ बद्धौ
>> सङ्गृहीतौ इष्येते । प्राज्ञस्तु बीजभावेनैव बद्धः ।
>>
>> Here he is describing tattvAgrahaNa as a bIja, and that while the vishva
>> and taijasa are bound by this and anyathAgrahaNa, the prAjna is bound only
>> by the bIja, tattvAgrahaNa.
>>
>> Further, he describes the relationship between tattvAgrahaNa and
>> anyathAgrahaNa as the relationship between a bIja (seed) and a phala
>> (fruit).
>>
>> It is difficult to imagine how an abhAva-rUpa tattva-agrahaNa can be said
>> to be the basis for the prAjna to be bound, especially so because Shankara
>> explicitly raises the possibility of tattva-agrahaNa to be abhAva-rUpa in
>> mANDukya kAruka bhAShya 1.2 and dismisses it. If you will recall, the
>> discussion is whether the Atma in deep sleep is endowed with such a bIja or
>> not -
>>
>> pUrvapakshI - निर्बीजतयैव चेत् ,
>> siddhAntin - सति प्रलीनानां सम्पन्नानां सुषुप्तिप्रलययोः
>> पुनरुत्थानानुपपत्तिः स्यात् ; मुक्तानां च पुनरुत्पत्तिप्रसङ्गः,
>> बीजाभावाविशेषात् , ज्ञानदाह्यबीजाभावे च ज्ञानानर्थक्यप्रसङ्गः ;
>> तस्मात्सबीजत्वाभ्युपगमेनैव सतः प्राणत्वव्यपदेशः, सर्वश्रुतिषु च
>> कारणत्वव्यपदेशः ।
>>
>> If this bIja itself were abhAva rUpa, both the question of the
>> pUrvapkashi (nirbIjatayaiva astu) the hetu given by the bhAShyakAra,
>> बीजाभावाविशेषात्, ज्ञानदाह्यबीजाभावे would be strange.
>>
>> What would nirbIja and bIjAbhAva mean if the bIja was
>> abhAva-rUpa-tattva-agrahaNa? The presence of tattvajnAna?  So the
>> pUrvapakshI is asking why is tattvajnAna not present in deep sleep? That
>> would make no sense.
>>
>> What would the bhAShyakAra's statement muktAnAm punarutpatti-prasangah
>> mean in that case? If in pralaya there was bIjAbhAva, that is, if
>> tattva-jnAna was present in pralaya, mukta-s would end being born again?
>> That is a clearly incorrect statement. Why would the liberated ones
>> possessing tattva-jnAna be born again?
>>
>> Similarly what would the statement jnAna-dAhya-bIjAbhAve ca
>> jnAna-Anarthakya-prasangah of the bhAshyakAra mean? So the bhAShyakAra is
>> saying if  there was bIjAbhAva, i.e. if tattvajnAna was present,
>> tattvajnAna would be of no use? Again, a strange idea.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatarghavan
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 8:55 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Chandramouli ji.
>>>
>>> SSS ji says in the explanation to verse 179 -  आत्माग्रहणमेव तस्या
>>> अनात्मरूपाया रूपम्। अत एव विद्याविरुद्धत्वात् अविद्येति तस्या अपि व्यपदेश
>>> इत्यर्थः।
>>>
>>> Anandagiri Swami - नञस्तर्हि कोऽर्थः स्यात् इति आशङ्क्य - यथा
>>> अमित्र-अधर्म-आदौ तदन्यत्वं तद्विरुद्धत्वं वा नञोऽर्थो न तदभावत्वमित्याह -
>>> अमित्रवदिति।
>>>
>>> SSS ji accepts that avidyA is vidyA-viruddhA and yet holds - avidyA is
>>> abhAva! This is something hilarious.
>>>
>>> VArtikakAra is explaining that agrahaNa is like amitra, which is not
>>> some abhAva - and yet SSS ji can cite this for abhAvatva of avidyA is
>>> unfortunate. The very insertion of amitra is to explain the artha of नञ्
>>> samas.
>>>
>>> This is called jabardasti.
>>>
>>> Also, can you locate where has SSS ji "explained" BBV 1.4.371 - अस्य
>>> द्वैतेन्द्रजालस्य......
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
>>>
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