[Advaita-l] [advaitin] The Upanishad and Shankara hold 'tamas' darkness, to be a 'thing.'

[V Subrahmanian]

There is a interesting observation by the  Bhashyakara in this
Brihadaranyaka  upanishad section:  1.4.2:


लोके हि नैमित्तिकानां कार्याणां निमित्तभेदोऽनेकधा विकल्प्यते । तथा
निमित्तसमुच्चयः । तेषां च विकल्पितानां समुच्चितानां च
पुनर्गुणवदगुणवत्त्वकृतो भेदो भवति । तद्यथा — *रूपज्ञान एव तावन्नैमित्तिके
कार्ये **तमसि** विनालोकेन चक्षूरूपसन्निकर्षो नक्तञ्चराणां रूपज्ञाने
निमित्तं भवति ; मन एव केवलं रूपज्ञाननिमित्तं योगिनाम् ; अस्माकं तु
सन्निकर्षालोकाभ्यां सह तथादित्यचन्द्राद्यालोकभेदैः समुच्चिता निमित्तभेदा
भवन्ति ; तथालोकविशेषगुणवदगुणवत्त्वेन भेदाः स्युः* ।

He says for the perception of tamas, darkness, the nocturnal beings like
the owl are able to *contact darkness by their eyes. *For* Yogis* even the
eye  is not necessary; just the mind can apprehend a formed object. For
others, normal people, the organ contact, light are all required.  (This is
especially interesting in the wake of Sri Chandramouli ji's observation.)

(I have not checked the Madhavananda translation).

In Br.Up. Bhashyam 2.1.12 yet another interesting observation:

छायायां बाह्ये तमसि अध्यात्मं च आवरणात्मकेऽज्ञाने हृदि च एका देवता, तस्या
विशेषणम् — मृत्युः ; फलं सर्वं पूर्ववत् , मृत्योरनागमनेन रोगादिपीडाभावो
विशेषः ॥
Baahya tamas is darkness.  *And in the Ajnana, that is deluding/enveloping,
in the mind, there is one Devataa.   Shankara is accepting Ajnana too to be
a physical entity that has the mind for its locus.  *The Bh.Gita 13th
chapter holds iccha, dvesha, sukham, duhkham, etc. to be kshetram,
prakriti.  Thus the contents of the mind, though not contactable by the
organs, but admitted to be sakshi vedyam, are also treated as kshetram,
product of prakriti.  The antahkaranam is admitted to be a product of the
pancha bhutas, apanchikrita, sattvamsha samashthi.  There is the famous
Br.Up. 1.5.3 mantra: कामः सङ्कल्पो विचिकित्सा श्रद्धाश्रद्धा
धृतिरधृतिर्ह्रीर्धीर्भीरित्येतत्सर्वं मन एव - all contents of the mind are
grouped as manas itself.  Vritti-Vrittimatorabhedah.
In this Bhashya (that I had cited already in the first post of this thread)
Br.Up. 3.7.12:

समानमन्यत् । योऽप्सु तिष्ठन् , अग्नौ, अन्तरिक्षे, वायौ, दिवि, आदित्ये,
दिक्षु, चन्द्रतारके, आकाशे, यस्तमस्यावरणात्मके बाह्ये तमसि, तेजसि
तद्विपरीते प्रकाशसामान्ये —* इत्येवमधिदैवतम्* अन्तर्यामिविषयं दर्शनं
देवतासु । अथ अधिभूतं भूतेषु ब्रह्मादिस्तम्बपर्यन्तेषु
अन्तर्यामिदर्शनमधिभूतम् ॥
The Upanishad and the Bhashya group all the entities stated above - agni,
antariksa, vaayu, .....tamas and its opposite, tejas - as *Adhidaivam *-
*Cosmos*.

Monier Williams 1872

*अधिदैव *अधि-दैव or अधि-दैवत, अम्, n,

a presiding or tutelary deity/the supreme deity*/**the **divine agent
operating in material objects.*
 Thus we see that tamas, darkness, is grouped under material objects.

(Just to keep all interested in the thread, I am avoiding reply in
Sanskrit).

warm regards
subbu






On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, 5:17 pm Lokesh Sharma via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> श्रीमन् सुधांशुवर्य
>
> भावत्वं तमस अवश्यं स्वीकृतं स्यात् । न तत्र आपत्तिं करोमि । किन्तु भवता
> उक्तं यत् तमः पार्थिवं वर्तते । एतस्य प्रमाणं न पश्यामि ।
>
> यावत् मम अवगमनं वर्तते भावत्वं नाम पार्थिवं न । सुखमपि एक भावः ।
> रागद्वेषोत्साहमानहर्षादि अपि भावत्वेन स्वीक्रीयते यद्यपि तानि
> पार्थिववस्तूनि न सन्ति ।
>
> ॐ
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, 5:15 PM लोकेश <lokeshh.sharma at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > श्रीमन् सुधांशुवर्य
> >
> > भावत्वं तमस अवश्यं स्वीकृतं स्यात् । न तत्र आपत्तिं करोमि । किन्तु भवता
> > उक्तं यत् तमः पार्थिवं वर्तते । एतस्य प्रमाणं न पश्यामि ।
> >
> > यावत् मम अवगमनं वर्तते भावत्वं नाम पार्थिवं न । सुखमपि एक भावः ।
> > रागद्वेषोत्साहमानहर्षादि अपि भावत्वेन स्वीक्रीयते यद्यपि तानि
> > पार्थिववस्तूनि न सन्ति ।
> >
> > ॐ
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, 5:03 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> हरि ॐ लोकेशवर्य,
> >>
> >> तमसो भावरूपत्वमद्वैतवेदान्ते भाष्यवचनैः पुनश्च प्रमाणैरपि सुष्ठु
> >> प्रतिष्ठितं वर्तते। भाष्यवचनानि तु अत्रैव सुब्रह्मण्यमवर्यैः प्रथमसंदेशे
> >> प्रदत्तानि। प्रमाणानां जिज्ञासा यदि भवत्सु विद्यते तर्हि विवरणादयो
> ग्रन्था
> >> भवद्भिरवलोकनीयाः।
> >>
> >> अत्रेदं उल्लेखनीयं यत् न केवले अद्वैतवेदान्ते परं तु माध्वाचार्याणां
> >> रामानुजाचार्याणां चापि मते तमसो भावरूपत्वं स्वीकृतमेव वर्तते।
> >>
> >> सुधांशु
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 4:45 PM लोकेश <lokeshh.sharma at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> नमस्ते श्रीमन् सुधांशु
> >>>
> >>> > Further, it does appear prima facie a bit hard to a modern educated
> >>> person to accept that darkness is some material thing like table and
> chair.
> >>> I also had struggled a lot with this concept.
> >>>
> >>> एष निर्णयः भवता कुतः कृतः यत् तम इति अद्वैतसिद्धान्ते पार्थिवं वस्तु
> >>> (material thing) वर्तते ?
> >>>
> >>> स्वस्तिरस्तु
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 1:31:41 PM UTC+5:30 sudhans... at gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Namaste Chandramouli ji.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Reg // So, what objection can probably arise against its
> >>>>> pramAtri-vedyatva? //,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Because, for sense of sight to be functional, presence of light is
> >>>>> compulsory.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Nice point. I will check and get back on the issue after due
> >>>> application of mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards.
> >>>> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
> >>>>
> >>> --
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> >
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
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> >>
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