[Advaita-l] BhAvarUpatva of vishesha-abhAva

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Sudhanshu ji,
I don't think so, because for something to be an adhikaraNa for a dharma,
it has to be actually there. However, tere is no object corresponding to
the word tucCha.

So when we say tucCha has abhAva vilakshaNatva abhAva, those words have no
padArtha to correspond to it - if there was, it would be bhAvarUpa, not
tucCha.

Regards
Venkatraghavan.


On Thu, 1 Feb 2024, 23:36 Sudhanshu Shekhar, <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Venkat ji.
>
> Many thanks. It is perfectly clear.
>
> One more question. I think we had discussed it earlier also.
>
> Tuchha has shabd-janya-vritti-vishayatva like Brahman.
>
> BhAvarUpa and tuchchha are both accepted to be non-existent. Just that
> bhAvarUpa is perceived whereas tuchchha cannot be perceived.
>
> Now despite non-existence of bhAvarUpa, we still have no problem in
> location of bhAvarUpa dharma in bhAvarUpa adhikaraNa.
>
> But can bhAvarUpa dharma, namely shabda-janya-vritti-vishayatvam or say
> bhAvarUpa-vilakshaNatva etc, be located in tuchchha?
>
> I mean can tuchchha be adhikaraNa of bhAvarUpa dharma.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Thu, 1 Feb, 2024, 8:44 pm Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Sudhanshu ji,
>>
>> Yes. Everything other than Brahman being avidyAkArya, abhAva is
>> triguNAtmaka only. abhAva also has drshyatva hetu, being the object of
>> anupalabdhi pramANa, and hence mithyA. That being the case, it is
>> triguNAtmaka
>>
>> Some references:
>>
>> 1) Brihadaranyaka upaniShad bhashya1.2.1 (ghaTa bhAShya) - abhAva is
>> bhAvAtmaka, hence triguNAtmaka - अपि च, चतुर्विधानामभावानाम् ,
>> घटस्येतरेतराभावो घटादन्यो दृष्टः — यथा घटाभावः पटादिरेव, न घटस्वरूपमेव । न
>> च घटाभावः सन्पटः अभावात्मकः ; किं तर्हि ? भावरूप एव । एवं घटस्य
>> प्राक्प्रध्वंसात्यन्ताभावानामपि घटादन्यत्वं स्यात् , घटेन
>> व्यपदिश्यमानत्वात् , घटस्येतरेतराभाववत् ; तथैव भावात्मकताभावानाम् ।
>>
>> 2) Advaita Siddhi, avidyAlakshaNopapattih - abhAva is jnAnanivartya,
>> hence triguNAtmaka
>> आत्मत्वस्यैवोपाधित्वात्।
>> न चात्यन्ताभावान्योन्याभावयोः
>> साध्याव्याप्तिः।अधिकरणातिरिक्तस्यानिवर्त्यस्यात्यन्ताभावादेरनभ्युपगमात्।
>> Same upAdhi for the pUrvapakshi's anumAna as the other email. The
>> opponent says that there is sAdhya avyApti for Atmatvam in the case of
>> atyantAnyonyAbhAva. Meaning atyantAbhAva and anyonyAbhAva have the sAdhya
>> of anivartyatva (according to him), but don't have the supposed upAdhi of
>> Atmatvam.
>>
>> The siddhikAra says we do not accept anivartyatvam for atyantAbhAva
>> unless you take atyantAbhAva being adhikaraNAtmaka, which in avidyA's case
>> means Brahman, which is anivartya.
>>
>> Thus atyantAbhAva and anyonyAbhAva have jnAna nivartyatvam. If they do,
>> they are mithyA (3rd definition of mithyA) and are triguNAtmaka.
>>
>> 3) Advaita siddhi dvitIya mithyAtva lakshaNam - niShedha has drShyatva as
>> niShedhyatAvacChedakam and hence undergoes niShedha itself, ergo abhAva is
>> mithyA.
>>
>> एवञ्च प्रकृते अपि निषेधबाधकेन प्रतियोगिन: प्रपञ्चस्य निषेधस्य च बाधनात् न
>> निषेधस्य  बाध्यत्वे अपि प्रपञ्चस्य तात्त्विकत्वम् । उभयोरपि
>> निषेध्यतावच्छेदकस्य दृश्यत्वादेस्तुल्यत्वात्
>>
>> 4) Vedanta Paribhasha - anupalabdhi pariccheda - vyAvahArika abhAva has
>> mAyA as upAdAnam
>>
>> नह्युपादानोपादेययोरत्यन्तसाजात्यम् तन्तुपटयोरपि तन्तुत्वपटत्वादिना
>> वैजात्यात् यत्किञ्चित्साजात्यस्य मायया अनिर्वचनीयघटाभावस्य च
>> मिथ्यात्वधर्मस्य विद्यमानत्वात् ।
>> अन्यथा व्यावहारिकं घटाभावं प्रति कथं मायोपादानमिति कुतो नाशङ्केथाः ।
>>
>> In response to the charge that an illusion of absence (abhAva bhrama,
>> prAtibhAsika abhAva) cannot be a product of mAyA because mAyA being
>> bhAvarUpa, cannot be the material cause of an illusory  absence, for if it
>> did, the absence would also be bhAvArUpa, the paribhAShAkAra asks, why
>> didn't you ask the same question for vyAvahArika abhAva - implying even a
>> vyAvahArika abhAva is mAyAkArya only, and hence triguNAtmaka.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 5:00 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hari Om,
>>>
>>> Are vishesha-abhAva such as pot-abhAva, cloth-abhAva etc, which are known
>>> by anupalabdhi pramANa, triguNAtmaka?
>>>
>>> Kindly share references to texts also, if any.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
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