[Advaita-l] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

>
> On Sat, 2 Mar, 2024, 3:39 pm Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes ji
>> I meant that apauruSheyatva of vedas implies implicitly that  brahmA, an
>> intelligent being, possessed this knowledge even before human beings got
>> the revelation.
>>
>> The Vedas are not just sounds, rather they are words carrying knowledge
>> which implies it always has Ashraya in an intelligent Being even in the
>> kAraNa avasthA before sRShTi. And they were revealed to brahmA at the
>> beginning as given in svetAshvatara upanishad.
>>
>> They were always preserved and transmitted further down, through
>> intelligent beings from brahmA downwards. These earlier links in the
>> transmission of the Vedas (brahmA to the four eternal kumaras and also to
>> Indra and other devatAs etc) occurred even before life arose on earth.
>>
>> Since all existence of other lokas and other intelligent beings like
>> brahmA etc is either actively or implicitly denied by the current paradigms
>> of science, there is no way apauruSheyatva will ever find traction in
>> modern scientific circles. It will remain an Astika belief, a reasonable
>> one which is unopposed to any scientific data or facts, but which is
>> non-falsifiable.
>>
>> Om
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Elst makes the error in supposing that our view of apauruSheyatva -
>>>> that
>>>> > the Vedas do not have a human source - implies that they have a divine
>>>> > source. He then argues on the basis of this that as many of the
>>>> mantra-s in
>>>> > the Vedas have God as the object of the mantras and the human beings
>>>> as the
>>>> > subject (tatsavitur vareNyam....dhiyo yonah pracodayAt / tryambakam
>>>> > yajAmahe etc), they cannot have a divine source - if the Vedas had
>>>> such a
>>>> > divine source, God would not have made Himself the object of the
>>>> mantras -
>>>> > He would have worded divine statements like the Ten Commandments -
>>>> "Thou
>>>> > shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" - i.e. have the divine as the
>>>> subject
>>>> > and the human as the object. As the Vedic mantras are worded the
>>>> other way
>>>> > around, i.e. have a human subject and divine object, they must have a
>>>> human
>>>> > source who has simply addressed the divine through religious poetry.
>>>> >
>>>> > However, our view of apauruSheyatva does not imply that the Vedas
>>>> have a
>>>> > divine composer - rather, apauruSheyatva means there is *no* composer
>>>> of
>>>> > the Vedas. The Veda itself says - अस्य महतो भूतस्य
>>>> निश्वसितमेतद्यदृग्वेदो
>>>> > यजुर्वेदः सामवेदोऽथर्वाङ्गिरसः, etc ie the Vedas were the breath of
>>>> > paramAtma. *Even the Lord is not the composer of the Vedas*. They are
>>>> a
>>>> > naturally pre-existent phenomenon - Ishvara does not create them, they
>>>> > emerge from Him. Even Ishvara does not have the freedom to change the
>>>> > content of the Vedas in the slightest - that being the case, there is
>>>> no
>>>> > necessity for the mantra-s to be worded as commandments from Ishvara
>>>> down
>>>> > to humanity.
>>>> >
>>>> > In every instance of creation after pralaya, Ishvara hands over the
>>>> Veda in
>>>> > the exact same form of words, down to the very sound, to Brahma, to
>>>> use as
>>>> > the basis for the new creation यो ब्रह्माणम् विदधाति पूर्वम् यो वै
>>>> वेदांश्च
>>>> > प्रहिणोति तस्मै. The Veda itself says that Ishvara hands over the
>>>> Vedas to
>>>> > Brahma - i.e. the human beings did not compose such a Veda. That
>>>> Brahma
>>>> > creates the creation in the exact form as the previous creation - धाता
>>>> > यथापूर्वं अकल्पयत् . The vedas, specifically their sounds, thus are
>>>> the
>>>> > blueprint of every creation, and there can be no change to a single
>>>> svara,
>>>> > a single vowel. The Vedas, the life breath of Ishvara, offers the
>>>> means to
>>>> > reach Him, and in doing so positions itself from the standpoint of the
>>>> > worshipper, addressing Ishvara - thus enabling the worshipper to reach
>>>> > Ishvara. This in itself does not imply that humans created the Veda,
>>>> thus
>>>> > precluding its apauruSheyatva, as Elst alleges.
>>>> >
>>>> > No other culture in the world makes such an astounding claim of their
>>>> > foundational text. No wonder people are unable to accept it - but
>>>> their
>>>> > disagreement does not dismiss such a view.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> > Venkatraghavan
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